Now that is a headline I didn't expect to read. Why stop at the UAE, why not go the whole hog and look for a Palestinian backer to sponsor the new stadium? The club could then carve off two chunks on either side of the new ground and build walls around them, forcing anybody who comes originally from the N17 district to watch the game on flickering black and white TV sets from inside the walled areas. They could even name one of the sections after former star Paul Gascoigne - the Gazza Strip sounds like a Lap Dancing club I know, but former manager David Pleat would find it appealing! All in all, just like the homeland!
Apologies, this honestly isn't meant to be racist, but to point out the irony of Tootatthem looking for Arab backers given the supposed Jewish connections of the club. It is intended to highlight the human rights abuses in Israel, however, a country I visited before the creation of the West Bank and Gaza.
Back then, the big worry was that by 2010, Israel could vote itself out of existence due to the falling birth rate of Jews and the maintained birth rates of Arabs. The solution? Carve off two chunks of the nation, give them the status of separate states but not the means to exist, and disenfranchise all the Arabs inside the territories. Clever eh? Just like the ghettos in Poland after the Nazi occupation. And if the locals get uppity, send in the tanks.
Well done to Obama for having the courage to speak out on this issue and tell it how it is. What happened to the Jews must never be forgotten; but it must not be used as an excuse for them to abuse the human rights of the Palestinians half a century and more after the event.
Meanwhile, the idea of Arabs sponsoring Tootatthem has a deliciously ironic appeal. As ironic as little old bankrupt West Ham being taken over by a bankrupt Icelandic bank!
Do you wear Obsession by Calvin Kline? This is supposed to be a West Ham blog but every article is about Tootatthem. I suppose that is because Tootatthem are the biggest club in the world. Don't you get it, we don't care about your Pikey club. Crawl back into your caravan...yawn.
ReplyDeleteBlimey!! Third day in a row you've posted a Spurs related article. I take it that's because nothing is happening in the pikey ridden corner of london your lot hail from.
ReplyDeleteIs it because you're jealous that we're actually building a new stadium that will blow upton park out of the water? Still at least you're guarenteed at least one visit a season to see what a real stadium looks like.
Saw this in the paper this morning. You should see if they're selling tickets, it might be the most talent you're going to see at upton park for a very long time! >>
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2477684/Irons-fan-gets-kick-out-of-gift.html
Face it........ you're obsessed with Spurs.
I've already said all that in my reply to my own article mate. Are you so obsessed with this blog that you feel the need to come back day after day and repeat what I have already written? Sorry that I have an interest in World Affairs!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, this isn't an article about Tootatthem, that is the vehicle. The article is about Israel. (And there was only one other article about Tootatthem, and, in truth, that was also about the pandemic panic.
ReplyDeletelol i'm not convinved with this in relation to West Ham, as the last line seems to just be random. You should make a discussion about West Hams prospects that might get through next season
ReplyDeleteu r a spa
ReplyDeleteAlways amused me this 'so called' link with the surrounding jewish community and THFC. The truth is out there and the adopted YID moniker is more a tongue in cheek stance by spurs fans if the truth be known.
ReplyDeleteThere are just as many proven 'jewish' links with the other london clubs including west ham but that seems to be conveniently over looked.
1111, I agree, especially at West Ham. Let's face it, one of the reasons why Hitler bombed the East End was because of the size of the Jewish population. I have Jewish heritage myself, a Great Grandmother called Jacobs, and went to Israel very much as a Jewish sympathiser. I returned a supporter of the Palestinian cause having seen in close up the appalling human rights abuses. The article is about Israel more than it is about Tootatthem.
ReplyDeleteI a Spurs fan who also happens to be a muslim of Arab origin. Fact is, Tottenham is as multi cultural a club as you are likely to see. On my visits to the lane I have seen supporters of just about every colour, creed and reigion. This idea that Spurs has Jewish connections (for the record, there are many Jewish people that condemn Israel for their treatment of Palestininans) goes back to that particular part of North London historically being known for having a sizeable Jewish population, which in turn led to racist stereotyping of the club from rival supporters. Yes the clubs current chairman is Jewish but so are the owners of Manchester United, Chelsea, Birmingham, Aston Villa (I think), Wolves and numerous other clubs. In addition, Arsenal (our near neighbours in North London)have a number of Jewish board members, (former chairman David Dein was also Jewish) and are likely to have just a big a Jewish supporter coningent as Spurs (indeed Chief Rabbi Johnathan Sachs is a gooner). That's the same Arsenal who now reside at the Emirates Stadium. The same Arsenal which made a controversial commercial agreement a few years back with the Israali tourist board to promote Isreali tourism ('Think Isrrael') within the Emirates Stadium. In this instance, your micro analogy of Israel occupying Arab territory would have been more apt. But of course you didn't raise it then because the purpose of your musings are actually not at all concerned with highlighting injustices such as the plight of Palestinians, but simply a means, any means, of trying to knock Tottenham. You don't like Spurs, we get it, and you are entitled to voice your dislike to your heart's content but please don't try and use a humanitarian crisis that has been going on since well before you were born and in which literally millions of men , women and children have lost their lives and homes as a means to do it.
ReplyDeleteSpurs don't have supposed Jewish links.
ReplyDeleteThe Jewish identity was a reaction to chanting by national front supporting west ham and chelsea fans who, in the 70s, travelled north to WHL through South Tottenham where there was a large traditional Jewish community.
So the West Ham and Chelsea fans chanted anti-semitic abuse - and Spurs fans responded with the deliberatly anti-racist "yid army" chant.
Which makes me wonder if perhaps it is ironic to see a West Ham website emphasise the Jewish connection in this sort of article.
1141, an interesting an informative response but you are very wrong in one respect. I feel no antipathy for Tootatthem whatsoever. I do enjoy a gentle wind up of a rival club, in the same way that siblings wind each other up, but if Tootatthem were playing Liverpool or Chelsea in a Cup Final, I would be cheering for the Cockyfools. You must admit that there is a certain irony in Arabs sponsoring Tootatthem, given the supposed Jewish links - and please note the use of that word "supposed" in the original article. I do feel passionately about the situation in Isreal, having visited the country and seen personally what goes on. The article is tongue in cheek in the opening paragraph but supporting the Palestinian cause in the remainder. A tricky balancing act for a reader to negotiate, I accept, but not beyond somebody of your obvious intelligence.
ReplyDeleteLOL Tootatthem do have SUPPOSED Jewish links! The links may not be genuine but they are SUPPOSED. Ask any rival fan!
ReplyDeleteI don't really see any 'irony' in it at all... Both Chelski and the Arses have been or are sponsored by 'Arabic' sponsors and both clubs had or have Jewish chairmen and many Jewish board members. Also this idea that all 'Jews' and the actions of the Israeli government and military are somehow inter-linked is not only a huge generalisation but also, yes racist. If anyone else spoke of people of a certain race or religion in this way, there'd be an outrage. It's a bit like saying, "Isn't it ironic that Somalis come to settle in the West to escape anarchy when their pirates rob our ships"... It's lazy and a gross over simplification of the matter. I think these sort of things should be kept within serious journalism where all the facts are researched and considered properly (or should be). If anything, rather than make a negative issue out of it see it as another example of 'Arabs and Jews' working together somewhere else in the World which is more than often the case. The human rights abuse finger-pointing should be aimed at the Israeli authorities and those who support their actions and not every Jewish person in the world. There are many Jewish organisations that march in protest for the rights of the Palestinians. Time to either grow up or stick to talking about the offside rule i think!!! Daft article...
ReplyDeleteThat's a good idea mate. Yes it is a daft article but look at how it has prompted debate. You have a forum like this don't you? And who knows, a few idiots who just think hatred might read the article and the replies and start to get a bigger picture. Unlikely I know, but who knows? Of course Jews can criticise Israel; the question is, how many do? Perhaps if the Jews of the world condemned expansionist Zionism, we might move towards a solution. Equally, if all Muslims condemned antisemitism and plans to wipe Isreal from the world map, we might make progress. Obama is, thankfully, opening up the debate. Bush and previous Presidents only wanted to build Zionist designed bridges.
ReplyDelete...and now you're pontificating on the Israeli / Palestinian conflict...you are priceless...
ReplyDeleteI am aren't I? Should I charge for visiting the site do you think? But then the Tootatthem fans wouldn't visit! ; }
ReplyDeleteSome good points are made here but as it is being raised, could I point out some truths.
ReplyDelete1) In the 1930's Oswald Mosely used to make his impassioned racist comments at Highbury where he often used to speak. This is a time when far right politics and racism where the norm. When he gestured northwood and referred to 'the yids' when he was talking about the Hassidic jews of Stamford Hill, the arse supporters used that as a metaphor for their rival football club, Spurs, on the High Road who had jewish connections. This is where this blatant racism came from.
2. West Ham supporters still 'hiss' at Spurs mimiking the supposed sound of Zyklon B makes when it is mixed with water as the Nazis used to use to murder their prisoners in the gas chambers in Poland during the second world war in their concentration camps. 6 minllion were murdered. Nice one hammers.
3. So do Chelsea.
4. So do the goners.
why would you not expect to read a headline that you wrote? I have often thought that you churned this stuff out with your eyes shut and now you prove it. Keep up the infomed debate on cultures and religions you know depressingly little about, along with the idiotic belief that in its own little way this blog will change the minds of zealots
ReplyDeleteI didn't write the headline, it appeared on News Now. I sprung my article off it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/tottenham/5512580/Tottenham-seek-stadium-sponsor-in-Dubai.html
ReplyDeleteTo be fair 1319, I used this blog to apologise to Tottenham fans for that disgusting practice and called for the "fans" responsible to be banned.
ReplyDeletebizarre article, mostly because your grasp of the history of Israel and the Occupied Territories appears a little sketchy...
ReplyDeleteDoes it Mark, in what way? I am well read on the subject and have been out there. Point out the inaccuracies please.
ReplyDeletedear o dear ............
ReplyDelete1980.........1980..........1980
I suggest you educate yourself about the Middle East
ReplyDeleteSome facts to help you
- The UN proposed to partition the British mandate of Palestine into two countries, one Jewish, one Arab (respectively Israel and Jordan). The Jews accepted. The Arabs refused and attacked, only to be defeated.
- The PLO was founded in the 1960s, when Gaza and the West Bank were controlled by Egypt and Jordan respectively
- Between 1948 and 1967, Egypt and Jordan made no attempt WHATSOEVER to set up a country called "Palestine" in these territories.
- The 1967 war where Israel took over Gaza/West Bank was started by the Arab countries, following which they resolved on 3 "nos" (No Recognition, No Negotiation, No Peace)
- In 2000, Arafat chose to walk away from a peace offer without even a counter offer, for which he was condemned by Bill Clinton.
- Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are best sellers in Arab countries
- Territories that Israel withdraws from (such as Gaza/South Lebanon) are used to attack Israel while territories that Israel still occupies like the West Bank have no such attacks. So much for "the occupation causes attacks" myth.
- The inhabitants of Gaza/West Bank have received billions in aid over a substantial period of time. No other country/territory receives so much aid, in spite of lots of far more deserving case. Yet we still get sob stories and attacks from that area.
2122, I do not need a history lesson from you thank you very much. Buy "From Beirut to Jerusalem" from Amazon, written by a Jew, the Middlle East correspondent for the New York Times through the late 70s and 1980s. It is a fantastic read and nails the difference between "Jewishness" and Zionism. I went to Israel as a Jewish sympathiser and was disgusted by what I saw, including crude and shameful propaganda against Arabs in Yad Vashem.
ReplyDeleteYou do not address the key point of the disenfranchisement of the Arab population of Gaza and the West Bank to prevent Israel from being voted out of existence. The same apartheid exists in Israel as existed in the old South Africa. Have you ever been there or do you just spout the Zionist propaganda?
mate ur passion for ur football club is impacting on getting ur facts straight. Why dont you reply to any of the facts said above. And if ur that into ur books then why dont you read Alan Dershowitz "The case for Israel" and then maybe you'll think again
ReplyDeleteNone of what is listed makes any difference. The point is, Israel exists because of the western world's collective guilty conscience over the Final Solution. The New Jerusalem should have been built in Arizona, a Jewish Salt Lake City. To claim back a "homeland" after a near 2000 year absence is frankly absurd. The fact that Egypt and Jordan have treated the Palestinians dreadfully is no justification for what Israel has done. The blame and counter blame game you have played is so typical of what happens. The simple fact is that the Jewish "democratic" state of Israel pursues a policy of apartheid.
ReplyDeletefor starters, i doubt very much that you have been to either the West Bank or Gaza before they were created, unless you are incredibly old and remember Judea and Samaria or some such. and there is no wall around Gaza, whatever difference that makes. you also can't speak about Palestinians as disenfranchised, it doesn't describe their predicament, whatever your view(s) on the situation. what would their 'franchise' be, for example. and of course there are Arabs that live in Israel and they vote and they have political representation in the Knesset. it's not Apartheid, and if you think it is similar then you ought also to be aware of the glaring differences as well. this is not an easy topic and you can't simplify it to 'i like Jews but they are mean to Arabs'. good people and bad exist and have existed on either side of this debate. also, you said later that Israel only exists from a guilty conscience in the west, but that is extremely inaccurate and does a disservice to those Jews that fought so hard, independent of international help, to establish a Jewish state. if you want to look at the problems of modern Israel in context then Walt & Mearsheimer put together some interesting thoughts recently on the Israel Lobby. remember also that Jew, Israeli and Zionist all refer to different things or people and each has different connotations. finally, your final post raises more questions than it provides answers - how many years must i occupy a land before it is mine? how many years must i be gone before i cease to long for that land? if i take land in a battle, can i keep it? what makes a nation? what constitutes a demoracy? Israel claims that it's Arabs have more democratic freedoms than any other Arabs in Middle Eastern states, is that important?
ReplyDeleteThe Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza were disenfranchised when they were given the vote for their own "governments", so they no longer have a vote for the Knesset. But ultimately, the government of Israel squeezes both territories inside a fist of dictatorship, every bit as cynical as the government of Iran, for example. Israel does exist because the West allowed it to exist. The West should not have allowed it. When I was in Bethlehem (now in the West Bank), I talked with Christian Arabs who had be forcibly uprooted from their homes and moved to Arab enclaves on the hills around the town - that was outright apartheid. Leaving the country, I was asked if I had spoken to "any Arabs" during my stay and I witnessed public humiliation of Arab passengers by immigration / security officials. In Yad Vashem there was a quote from the Mufti of Jerusalem. It read (and I use upper case letters where they were used) "We must find the Final Solution of the Jewish problem." Somebody had complained and the word "Final" had a line through it and the S had been corrected to a lower case. In fact he had said, "We must find a solution to the Jewish problem". In Yad Vashem a film described the holding camps in Cyprus as "Another Auschwitz......(long pause as the barbed wire fence was revealed) ....only without the gas chambers." The use of crude propaganda shocked me to the core given it was a basic ploy of the Nazis in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI am not suggesting that there is not wrong on both sides - there clearly is! But should Israel have been created after a 2000 year gap? Absolutely not. The seeds of the Second World War were in the Versaille Treaty that ended the First. The spark for World War III will be in the Middle East, centred on Israel. Sadly, there is no going back but a HUGE price will be paid one day because nobody was prepared to say, "It was terrible what happened but if you want a Jewish homeland, it can't be in the tinder box of the Middle East."
i'm sorry to point it out, but you are just plain wrong and you ought to take more care expressing yourself over such things. it was suggested quite clearly that there be alternatives to the Middle East for a Jewish Homeland, by Theodor Herzl no less in the essay that started it all. Mandate Palestine was chosen from a number of options. and, perhaps more importantly, you talk as if there was some rational power overseeing the destiny of Jews. the history of the Ottoman Empire and its collapse should be evidence enough that the entire region was chaos, the last throes of the 'great game'. who was carving up the region? Britain, France and Russia. When Russia left the war in 1917 the British were staring at defeat and they sought allegiance where they could find it, resulting in the Balfour Declaration. it was pragmatism, not some sort of grand scheme to displace Palestinians. in fact if you look at the origins of the conflict under the Mandate, you'll find the Jews in the area greatly outnumbered and greatly restricted in their efforts to bring in European Jews by.... the British. and you say Israel should never have been created, but short of anti-semitism, why not? what about other 'new' nations like the USA?
ReplyDeleteagain, why were Arabs disenfranchised? they din't have the vote in 1917, 1947, 1948 or 1967. and since Israel didn't occupy these territories until 1967 how has Israel disenfranchised them?
and Yad Vashem is bloody ugly and depressing but so was the Holocaust. i'm not sure likening the holding camps to the death camps counts as propaganda? plenty of accounts from the time suggested the same thing. this is a site dedicated to making sure the holocaust is not repeated. are you really surprised to find Israel invoking polemics against those that perpetrated, deny and rejoice in the Holocaust?
as for the displacement of Arabs, the documentary evidence is very suggestive of such a policy among the Jewish forces, but there is also considerable evidence that huge number of the Arabs voluntarily left the land. if 700k were displaced, should the 4m that now call themselves Palestinian be allowed a 'right of return'? At Oslo and Oslo II Israel offered 2-states. according to your view a 2-state solution is wrong, yet almost every man and his dog acknowledges that a 2-state solution is the best one, perhaps including Netanyahu if you believe everything you read.
and finally, perhaps you should speak to more Arabs in the West Bank, in Jordanian refugee camps and in Lebanon and elsewhere and ask them about Jews, Israel and the Holocaust. those views you hear will be just as enlightening.
on a personal note, i think it's irresponsible for you to be bringing to bear your own views on a topic like this in this setting without being better informed. you know your words will be interpreted and they can be taken as genuinely offensive, not just children calling each other names on a blog about football. i really would implore you to be both more balanced and better informed.
"In the 1930's Oswald Mosely used to make his impassioned racist comments at Highbury where he often used to speak."
ReplyDeleteThis is totally untrue. Care to name your historical sources on Mosley speaking at Highbury....