I don't know John Hartson and have no idea what he is like as an individual. But in the late nineties he and Paul Kitson contributed to one of the most exciting ends to a season that I can remember. I was living in America and only received news of West Ham from bulletins my wife brought home from a fledgeling internet. It was a marvellous escape ( we seem to specialise in them don't we ). For nine months Hartson was unstoppable, he was immense for us at that time, in some ways a bit like you could imagine Dean Ashton being if he could ever get fit.
As regards the Eyal Berkovic incident; we all make mistakes, when someone is diagnosed as suffering what is likely to be terminal cancer is not the time to dwell on their falability as a human being.
I do not wish John Hartson any ill and hope that he does not suffer unduely. However, I do not think that he is worthy of all the coverage his illness is getting. We will all die, some of us earlier than others, some in more painful ways than others. The way that the media and the "general public" try to make such a massive deal out of what comes to us all is in bad taste. The very papers who painted Hartson as a thug, will now hypocritically exploit his illness with "Poor John Hartson" articles. The eulogies and sentimentality are inappropriate in my opinion. I wish him well but I do not think that his illness should be news. Poor John is the new Jade Goody. Her death became a media circus and a brave angelic creature was created out of a chavy racist. Sadly, John Hartson was never a model professional nor a model human being. One kick to the head can kill just effectively as brain cancer.
have a bit of respect, he's just received terrible news and is in the public eye so of course has had media attention. If you were a real West Ham fan you would never put this stuff on the web
Fanno - show some heart man - He was a nice guy and played like a barbarian... (when he wasn't bloated on McDee's).. Let's not compare him to Jade Goody (although I agree with your point on her) - a big difference he had talent and she had none whatsoever (other than showing herself to be a thick racsist girl that got very lucky financially...)
To begin, I do not speak for West Ham fans. This idea that all fans of a club speak with a common voice is absurd. Some think Hartson belongs in the West Ham hall of fame because he and Kitson kept us up; others believe the loss of Eyal because of Hartson had long term repercussions for the club. I say nothing negative about Hartson in the article, the message is simple, "Get well soon". The picture is perhaps the most famous picture to come out of West Ham in the last 25 years and is certainly the most famous to involve Hartson. In answer to Hotshot, Goody did not kick a housemate in the head, nor did she thump somebody in a nightclub as far as I know. My point is simple, cancer does not turn somebody into a saint worthy of a universal outpouring of grief and sympathy. 8 soldiers were killed serving this country this week. Like Hartson, they probably were not perfect human beings - who is? - but they are more worthy of our grief as they have died doing a job most of us would run a million miles from. John Hartson by comparison to your average soldier has had a wonderful life. I hope he makes it into remission just as I hope every victim of cancer achieves remission or recovery. A friend recently had a brain tumour removed and, despite being 67, is back playing 5 a side football and, sadly, smoking. Life goes on or comes to an end - the same applies to John Hartson as to everybody else. I feel sorry for the guy but I find the rush to eulogise him in very bad taste. If you feel sorry for the guy, feel sorry for the real John Hartson, not the sanitised version.
Is it? Why? Because it does not show Hartson as an angel? Because it doesn't fit in with the eulogies? Because it signalled the end of Eyal's career at West Ham? It happened didn't it?
You're too hard on people Hammersfan. I love that quote by Bob Dylan's gran which I'm going to misquote a little because I can't be arsed to google or look in me Dylan book 'Don't be unkind to even the unkindest of people because you don't know what road they've been down.' That was pretty much the sentiment.
Yes Jade Goody was a chavy racist, but if you were born in her shoes, lived her life you would be most likely be a chavy racist too. Not that that excuses racist behaviour, but if you don't hold racist views then your damn lucky you weren't born into the KKK. The KKK famously encourage their children's first words to be racist utterances, try being born under those circumstances and not turn out foul. Have some heart man, your chat about about death coming to us all of us is ill judged and tasteless along with this image of a man pictured at his worst. Someone said we grow up in every way except emotionally. So that goes for John acting like a kid in this clip and you too - looking down on him with this post, problem is, now I'm looking down on you. You're a contrary son of a bitch aren't you? But I guess I don't know the road you've been down.
1402, all very valid. I was born into an East End racist family myself as it happens but learnt to think outside of my conditioning. I guess the picture is out of order but people are talking as if it was a minor aberration. In fact, it was the worst thing I have seen / read about in 40 years of being a football fan, apart from Mr Barton's activities and possibly Cantona's scissor kick on the Palace fan. It wasn't just one of those things that happen, that kick could have killed Yossi and the photograph captures perfectly the intent on Hartson's face. I repeat, I don't wish the guy ill, but I repeat that others deserve our sympathy a lot more.
I was born into a similar racist London family, fortunately I went to a church school and my best friends were very bright and had Liberal educated parents, but if I hadn't been so lucky with the school I went to or the friends I made, I fear what I would have become. You say you made the choice to break away from your racist family trend but there will be other factors involved to allow you to do that, not just your own super will. It will be down to the age you were born into, the friends you made, the education you've had, our generation have been far luckier in that respect, we've been brought into a world far less tolerant of such racist behaviour, had you been born in a different era, different location even, there's no way of knowing for sure if your conscience would be smart enough to register the injustice. Nature and nurture, I believe in both. transplant us as babies into different era's, areas, with different paths and different experiences there's no question we would turn out vastly different from the people we are today.
You also seem to herald soldiers as angels going into war, I know a lot of them have to do a fearful, brave and horrible job, I personally know a few, but some of them love it, some of them love it too much. what else is in the news right now? oh yes, torture etc, not all soldiers merit your sympathies over a man who reacted badly at a football training ground. I hardly think one boot to the face was going to kill Berkovic anyway, not that I applaud such behaviour. But I don't applaud your behaviour either writing this article. John's got 3 kids, you really should know when you've gone too far, like I said, I think you're a contrary type of fellow, and I think your humour isn't very funny, some might find you funny, but personally I prefer the likes of John Cleese, Ricky Gervais and Paul Kaye to Jim Davidson, Bernard Manning and The Chuckle Brothers. you don't seem to have any brakes.
1304, I was at school in the 60's and 70's when racism was rife. My grandfather's funeral was held in Bethnal Green even though he lived and died in East Ham because that was the closest church with a white vicar. The opening words of the funeral service were, "Arch was a man who wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade." I was the only one in the church not laughing.
1406, I say that the soldiers who have died were "probably not perfect human beings"; so how am I making them into angels exactly? I just think that they merit more sympathy than an ex professional footballer.
1304, I was at school in the 60's and 70's when racism was rife. My grandfather's funeral was held in Bethnal Green even though he lived and died in East Ham because that was the closest church with a white vicar. The opening words of the funeral service were, "Arch was a man who wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade." I was the only one in the church not laughing.
1406, I say that the soldiers who have died were "probably not perfect human beings"; so how am I making them into angels exactly? I just think that they merit more sympathy than an ex professional footballer.
Very poor taste.
ReplyDeleteI don't know John Hartson and have no idea what he is like as an individual. But in the late nineties he and Paul Kitson contributed to one of the most exciting ends to a season that I can remember. I was living in America and only received news of West Ham from bulletins my wife brought home from a fledgeling internet. It was a marvellous escape ( we seem to specialise in them don't we ). For nine months Hartson was unstoppable, he was immense for us at that time, in some ways a bit like you could imagine Dean Ashton being if he could ever get fit.
As regards the Eyal Berkovic incident; we all make mistakes, when someone is diagnosed as suffering what is likely to be terminal cancer is not the time to dwell on their falability as a human being.
This is really poor taste...
ReplyDeleteI do not wish John Hartson any ill and hope that he does not suffer unduely. However, I do not think that he is worthy of all the coverage his illness is getting. We will all die, some of us earlier than others, some in more painful ways than others. The way that the media and the "general public" try to make such a massive deal out of what comes to us all is in bad taste. The very papers who painted Hartson as a thug, will now hypocritically exploit his illness with "Poor John Hartson" articles. The eulogies and sentimentality are inappropriate in my opinion. I wish him well but I do not think that his illness should be news. Poor John is the new Jade Goody. Her death became a media circus and a brave angelic creature was created out of a chavy racist. Sadly, John Hartson was never a model professional nor a model human being. One kick to the head can kill just effectively as brain cancer.
ReplyDeletehave a bit of respect, he's just received terrible news and is in the public eye so of course has had media attention. If you were a real West Ham fan you would never put this stuff on the web
ReplyDeleteFanno - show some heart man - He was a nice guy and played like a barbarian... (when he wasn't bloated on McDee's)..
ReplyDeleteLet's not compare him to Jade Goody (although I agree with your point on her) - a big difference he had talent and she had none whatsoever (other than showing herself to be a thick racsist girl that got very lucky financially...)
You're sick man get help
ReplyDeleteTo begin, I do not speak for West Ham fans. This idea that all fans of a club speak with a common voice is absurd. Some think Hartson belongs in the West Ham hall of fame because he and Kitson kept us up; others believe the loss of Eyal because of Hartson had long term repercussions for the club. I say nothing negative about Hartson in the article, the message is simple, "Get well soon". The picture is perhaps the most famous picture to come out of West Ham in the last 25 years and is certainly the most famous to involve Hartson. In answer to Hotshot, Goody did not kick a housemate in the head, nor did she thump somebody in a nightclub as far as I know. My point is simple, cancer does not turn somebody into a saint worthy of a universal outpouring of grief and sympathy. 8 soldiers were killed serving this country this week. Like Hartson, they probably were not perfect human beings - who is? - but they are more worthy of our grief as they have died doing a job most of us would run a million miles from. John Hartson by comparison to your average soldier has had a wonderful life. I hope he makes it into remission just as I hope every victim of cancer achieves remission or recovery. A friend recently had a brain tumour removed and, despite being 67, is back playing 5 a side football and, sadly, smoking. Life goes on or comes to an end - the same applies to John Hartson as to everybody else. I feel sorry for the guy but I find the rush to eulogise him in very bad taste. If you feel sorry for the guy, feel sorry for the real John Hartson, not the sanitised version.
ReplyDeleteThe picture that you have picked for this article is inappropriate!!!
ReplyDeleteIs it? Why? Because it does not show Hartson as an angel? Because it doesn't fit in with the eulogies? Because it signalled the end of Eyal's career at West Ham? It happened didn't it?
ReplyDeleteThere's a time and a place you moron. Have some respect.
ReplyDeletePathetic as usual mate.
ReplyDeleteWell done plumbing depths that make even your fellow Hammers cringe to what? Provoke debate?
Surely you could highlight the hypocrisies of the Media/Press without stooping to their level?
But then to be honest I'm just surprised you didn't try and wedge some stupid reference to Spurs in there.
Get well John.
You're too hard on people Hammersfan. I love that quote by Bob Dylan's gran which I'm going to misquote a little because I can't be arsed to google or look in me Dylan book 'Don't be unkind to even the unkindest of people because you don't know what road they've been down.' That was pretty much the sentiment.
ReplyDeleteYes Jade Goody was a chavy racist, but if you were born in her shoes, lived her life you would be most likely be a chavy racist too. Not that that excuses racist behaviour, but if you don't hold racist views then your damn lucky you weren't born into the KKK. The KKK famously encourage their children's first words to be racist utterances, try being born under those circumstances and not turn out foul. Have some heart man, your chat about about death coming to us all of us is ill judged and tasteless along with this image of a man pictured at his worst. Someone said we grow up in every way except emotionally. So that goes for John acting like a kid in this clip and you too - looking down on him with this post, problem is, now I'm looking down on you. You're a contrary son of a bitch aren't you? But I guess I don't know the road you've been down.
1402, all very valid. I was born into an East End racist family myself as it happens but learnt to think outside of my conditioning. I guess the picture is out of order but people are talking as if it was a minor aberration. In fact, it was the worst thing I have seen / read about in 40 years of being a football fan, apart from Mr Barton's activities and possibly Cantona's scissor kick on the Palace fan. It wasn't just one of those things that happen, that kick could have killed Yossi and the photograph captures perfectly the intent on Hartson's face. I repeat, I don't wish the guy ill, but I repeat that others deserve our sympathy a lot more.
ReplyDeleteOops, Freudian slip above, I meant Eyal of course - both brilliant players who left West Ham far earlier than they should have done.
ReplyDeleteI was born into a similar racist London family, fortunately I went to a church school and my best friends were very bright and had Liberal educated parents, but if I hadn't been so lucky with the school I went to or the friends I made, I fear what I would have become. You say you made the choice to break away from your racist family trend but there will be other factors involved to allow you to do that, not just your own super will. It will be down to the age you were born into, the friends you made, the education you've had, our generation have been far luckier in that respect, we've been brought into a world far less tolerant of such racist behaviour, had you been born in a different era, different location even, there's no way of knowing for sure if your conscience would be smart enough to register the injustice. Nature and nurture, I believe in both. transplant us as babies into different era's, areas, with different paths and different experiences there's no question we would turn out vastly different from the people we are today.
ReplyDeleteYou also seem to herald soldiers as angels going into war, I know a lot of them have to do a fearful, brave and horrible job, I personally know a few, but some of them love it, some of them love it too much. what else is in the news right now? oh yes, torture etc, not all soldiers merit your sympathies over a man who reacted badly at a football training ground. I hardly think one boot to the face was going to kill Berkovic anyway, not that I applaud such behaviour. But I don't applaud your behaviour either writing this article. John's got 3 kids, you really should know when you've gone too far, like I said, I think you're a contrary type of fellow, and I think your humour isn't very funny, some might find you funny, but personally I prefer the likes of John Cleese, Ricky Gervais and Paul Kaye to Jim Davidson, Bernard Manning and The Chuckle Brothers. you don't seem to have any brakes.
ReplyDelete1304, I was at school in the 60's and 70's when racism was rife. My grandfather's funeral was held in Bethnal Green even though he lived and died in East Ham because that was the closest church with a white vicar. The opening words of the funeral service were, "Arch was a man who wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade." I was the only one in the church not laughing.
ReplyDelete1406, I say that the soldiers who have died were "probably not perfect human beings"; so how am I making them into angels exactly? I just think that they merit more sympathy than an ex professional footballer.
1304, I was at school in the 60's and 70's when racism was rife. My grandfather's funeral was held in Bethnal Green even though he lived and died in East Ham because that was the closest church with a white vicar. The opening words of the funeral service were, "Arch was a man who wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade." I was the only one in the church not laughing.
ReplyDelete1406, I say that the soldiers who have died were "probably not perfect human beings"; so how am I making them into angels exactly? I just think that they merit more sympathy than an ex professional footballer.