It certainly could have nothing to do with football because Speed was surfing the crest of a wave inside the game. If depression was to blame - as some are already suggesting - then those who chuck around comments about mental health issues - and there have been a few on here today - might like to stop and think. We have accepted that using terms related to physical and mental disability as insults are unacceptable, but some idiots still seem to think it is fair game to use mental illness itself as a stock insult. Maybe if they didn't, those who genuinely suffer might feel more comfortable about seeking help.
Congratulations are due to Kenny Dalglish for his statement and for making the decision to rest Bellamy. Shankly shamefully claimed that football was more important than life and death; but Dalglish has righted that wrong today by saying that grieving is "more important than any football match". Spot on.
Congratulations too to the fans at the Swansea v Villa and Liverpool v Man City games. Stupid rivalries were put aside and the applause in both stadia was very touching.
Life goes on, but sadly not for Gary Speed. His pain is over but that pain has been passed to a wife, loving parents and two young children - as well as to current and former players up and down the land who seem to have genuinely loved the guy. Given's tears and the inability of Hartson to broadcast for Radio 5 Live say it all.
Football is in a state of shock and perhaps we should all take stock. It seems such a wonderful life but the pressures are acute and players and managers are people, with human emotions, and can be hurt like everybody else. Those hunting down Kean at Blackburn and Bruce at Sunderland might like to reflect. Of course we feel passionate about the game and the club we love but sometimes we cross the line in an unacceptable way and sometimes a terrible price is paid, a price far worse than relegation.
What a terrible shock and waste. I doubt that any of us will ever really know what could drive someone to such a drastic conclusion but clearly he had his own view however distorted that may be. As a football fan I would like to thank Gary for the football he produced over the years. I am not religious but hope that he has found a kind of peacem
ReplyDeleteAgree apart from the selfish and foolish part. You cant say things like that about someone who obviously was suffering with some form of depression. Depression means you are unable to make rational decisions, and can mean you do not consider the consequences of your actions. Take out the first paragraph, and this is a very nice obituary. With the first paragraph, it is insulting and in all honesty, made me feel sick to my stomach.
ReplyDeletepeople with the darkest demons are the best at hiding them
ReplyDeleteJibbles, I do say "sadly". We don't know what lies behind it, I accept, but ultimately suicide is wasteful, foolish and selfish - had Gary sought help, or thought of others, he would not have gone through with it.
ReplyDeleteHow must his children be feeling? What about his father who made him what he was and who was so proud of him? So many people who loved him will be feeling pain, grief and guilt. We should never do that to those we love, no matter what our personal pain surely?
True Daz. But look at that picture. Do an image search for Gary. Try to find him smiling. Who knows? We may be being wise after the event. There may be something else we don't know. I hope not. But then what a terrible waste if it was depression, which can be treated. As I say, my thoughts are with his children. It may sound hard but a father should not do that, no matter how hard life seems.
ReplyDeleteAs I said to you, depression means you are not thinking straight. Regardless of the consequences, if someone is not in the right frame of mind, they obviously do not make the right decision. Of course his family will be devastated and bare the burden of his suicide, but to call him selfish is downright disgusting and closed-minded.
ReplyDeleteUnless you have been depressed to the point where you have seriously considered taking your own life, you have no right to judge others who have been in that position.
HF,
ReplyDeleteAs you say:
Those hunting down Kean at Blackburn and Bruce at Sunderland might like to reflect.
It must be dreadful to walk out into a stadium and feel yourself loathed by thousands of people. I remember feel really sorry for Glen Roeder, even as I desperately wanted him to leave. Some of the abuse that came his way. Nobody deserved that.
But I don't think its fair to judge Gary Speed too harshly. His family will be grief-stricken and they may even at some point feel angry. But depression is so debilitating. It eats you. It saps your energy and leaves you doubting your own judgement.
Who knows what a suicide is feeling.
Unless...
ReplyDeleteI don't want this to become a spat Jibbles, that is surely inappropriate. No matter what the pain is, we still "have judgement here", we still have the power, no matter how limited, to decide.
I wrote about the assisted suicide programme shown on the BBC and said how disgusting I thought it was to air that, albeit I assisted my own father as he died in acute agony from lung cancer. There is a point where the exit is the only door you can take, as with those poor sods who jumped from the Towers, but you have to be absolutely sure there is no other way out, and you have to think of others as well as of yourself. Suicide is wasteful, foolish and selfish. This is our only life and as Camus says, even if the World is absurd, we have a duty to make the best of absurdity whilst we are alive. And we have a duty to others too.
Rab, if we don't label it selfish, others might be more inclined to follow the example and give up. Catholics condemn it as a mortal sin, or certainly used to. You are right, we cannot know what Gary was thinking, and we don't even know for sure that he was depressed. But that doesn't change the fact that Gary was wrong to take his life. No matter how dark the tunnel, eventually you find the light.
ReplyDeleteHF,
ReplyDeleteIn an ideal world people suffering depression would seek help. But mental health problems carry such a stigma.
I had a colleague who suffered from bouts of severe depression but would never declare it openly. First of all she felt it was a personal failing. Secondly, she didn't want to burden her family with the problem. They obviously knew that something was something wrong but the whole family operated a sort of collective denial. Most importantly she felt it would be held against in work, especially if she sought promotion. We, her work colleagues could see the symptoms but it was too embarrassing a subject to broach. Ironically, the stress of work was largely what seemed to fuel her depression. But there was just such a regime of silence around it that it seemed impossible to deal with. I don't know what became of her in the end but I wonder if there was less of a stigma around depression whether people wouldn't be more willing to intervene in helpful ways.
I agree Rab.
ReplyDelete'No matter how dark the tunnel, eventually you find the light.'
ReplyDeleteHaving supported West Ham since I was six, I doubt the credibility of the above statement. Mrs Rab has remarked on many occasion that she attributes my melancholy disposition to a lifetime of following the Hammers. And now she is worried that I will inflict this fate upon our two boys.
So sad for the children, forget everyone else.
ReplyDeleteI just hope he wasn't caught up in some stupid affair.
I agree with your sentiments HF. That sticks and stones saying is bollocks...
If the man had died prematurely from some undetected cancer or heart failure I doubt the feelings would be the same, but, if it was depression it was an illness that killed him. A chemical imbalance in his brain. A treatable illness nevertheless an illness which is sometimes fatal.
ReplyDeleteMental illness is a very serious problem to those suffering from it. An unseen debilitating illness so easily dismissed as selfishness by those that do not understand Those that say this could have been avoided should think about something quite trivial that the mind does without your control, like breathing. How many people think about every breath they take and how many reading this can now breathe without thinking about it?
Your mind is your life and if it goes wrong there is no alternative.
Untreated it will kill you just like any other untreated illness
So you seek treatment if you have children mate.
ReplyDeletekevin in manchester writes.,.
ReplyDeleteAgree very sad for all concerned but do wonder what goes through a suicide's mind when they must know the life long pain and stigma their family will have to endure... impossible to tell I guess.
In general football is not a good place to be if you do suffer from any form of mental illness because it is such a public arena; it's treated as something of an entertainment- Gazza for example. Even at West Ham there was precious little sympathy for Savio who clearly has problems, never mind Boogers.
We are all shocked in Wales at this news,while it is still raw people will speculate every conceivable possible reason.I have my own views on what has happened today and they will remain private,because i too suffered to terrible fate of my father taking his own life when i was just 12 years old in 1974.Growing up without a father,whilst watching all my mate's with their dad's was very tough,it permanently mentally scars you.Because of my experience,It will be only Gary's children i'm thinking of tonight and the stigma they will have to face up to as they grow.
ReplyDeleteSo sorry to hear that mate, and that was the point I was trying to make. Life hurts sometimes, it can hurt like Hell, but when you have children you have a duty to stay the course, no matter the pain. My thoughts too are with the children.
ReplyDeleteThe comment about the hunting of Kean and Bruce by Blackburn and Sunderland fans is totally inappropriate. I know there are much more important issues in this thread, but it deserves comment that Speed's death had absolutely nothing to do with his being hunted. Quite the reverse, Wales fans, of which I'm one, couldn't praise Speed enough for the improvement he had made in the team. As the article says, "he was riding the crest of a wave." After the attitude of many Hammers fans to Avram Grant last season, it comes ill for a Hammers' fan to make condescending remarks about Blackburn and Sunderland fans.
ReplyDeleteOn a related issue, why are there sports psychologists? Because positive mental attitudes are very important for achieving success in sports. Expecting to win is an enormous advantage. So it's quite appropriate for fans of a struggling club to question the psychological condition of their manager. Of course, just throwing about insults is deplorable, whether about a psychological state or anything else––for instance, it's not very clever to call people "mindless idiots." Psychological condition can be a big problem, so discussing it cooly is a valid and important issue.
But, as I said, this has nothing to do with the death of Gary Speed who looked like becoming one of the best, if not THE best, managers Wales has ever had. I'm devastated. God bless his family and and RIP, Gary!
I say this has nothing to do with football Nippy, but the next one could be football related if we keep behaving as Sunderland and Blackburn fans are behaving at the moment. Please note the use of "we" both in this reply and in the final paragraph of the article. I would ask if any of us would really want to drive somebody to suicide; sadly, some of the idiots who come on here would probably reply yes.
ReplyDeleteThe demise of Gary Speed is a big blow to many football fans. Speed will be missed dearly for sure. One thing is for sure. Speed may be gone but in the eyes of football, he will live on as a Wales Legend.
ReplyDelete07:58 birds of a feather flock together - you get far more than your fair share of idiots on here. Funny how some blogs hardly attract them at all.......
ReplyDeleteSo it is you bringing your crowd of idiots with you is it?
ReplyDeleteSadly, you can't even show respect on this thread. That says a lot about you. My comment was genuinely made, some of you guys express such extremes of hatred, born I suspect of self loathing, that I really do think you would be happy to drive somebody to suicide.
22:48 according to Ian Botham Speed will be remembered as "one of the nicest guys in sport".
ReplyDelete"He was articulate, bright, sharp, fit, and a good-looking man - he had everything to live for,"
Who knows what goes through peoples minds? he obviously was respected by an awful lot of people. His friends are completely baffled, and all you can come up with is your usual knee jerk reaction - he should have got help for the kids sake.... Not everything can be explained and you'll never know how a persons mind is in the moments before taking their own life.
I think I have come up with something more than knee jerk. RIP is knee jerk. I think 2316 expresses it very well. He has been there, you haven't. Typically, however, you would rather have an argument.
ReplyDelete08:17 so what you saying? you don't get more than the average amount of idiots on this blog? that is an irrefutable truth, and it's something that cannot be argued. KUMB, WHTID and even the ORG have a better class of football fan, here it's mostly the dregs, haters and trolls.... and the reason this place is such **** hole? look no further than your bathroom mirror.
ReplyDelete1644 And you are posting this on a thread about Gary Speed. Class, mate, sheer class.
ReplyDeleteThat joke about Speed was in such bad taste that I have deleted it. You are a moron!
ReplyDeleteTo seek help you first need to realise you have a problem and the problem is so stigmitised that often people try to pretend that there is no problem just to avoid the ridicule
ReplyDeleteNobody in a fit mental state would do that to their kids but people in an unfit mental state do not think logically
There is no thought of this is wrong this is right most often you are overwhelmed with the belief that the people you love will be better off without you so you convince yourself that you're actually doing them a favour
I have nothing but sympathy for Gary and his family
It's time mental health was given the same priority as any other major illness nobody tells you to just pull yourself together when you have cancer or aids, heart disease etc etc
True Deane, but at the same time we don't want to trivialise mental illness by making every mental sniffle the sign of mental flu. It is a difficult area. We should feel able to talk about it, to admit to it, to recognise it in others and encourage them to seek help - but we don't want everybody to start claiming depression to avoid work or as a "first resort" whenever the pressure builds.
ReplyDeleteThere is also the danger that we are going over the top because GS is a public figure. A colleague of mine hanged himself a few years back. It was very sad but there is a percentage of our population that dies from cancer, heart disease, traffic accidents etcetera. Yes we must strive to reduce all early deaths, but we mustn't over react because of the death of one famous person.
I lost a guy I loved, as a friend, to suicide. He was one of the hardest men I knew and definitely heterosexual, as I am.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have struggled to come to terms with is why a few weeks previously was he giving me a hard time about always doing things for your kids but he did that for his own?????
Depression amongst women is higher than men but suicide amongst men is higher than women. What equation makes that happen?
Gary Speed was amongst the best, if not the best, midfielders of his era and was proving himself as an international manager why would anyone waste that????