There is a metaphor here for Scottish independence. Rangers have tried to punch with the big boys in Europe for decades now, but can't do so without the financial clout of the English Premiership. Being a big fish in a tiny pond is no good it seems, when you find yourself toe to toe with big fish in bigger ponds.
So Rangers have been living a lie by making payments into Employee Benefit Trusts without paying tax on the payments - a bit like 'Arry making payments to Rosie as far as the layman (and HMRC before the tria) is concerned. Isn't that how Scotland is being run at the moment, with free prescriptions and free university education, courtesy of funding from the English exchequer?
Isn't there a huge irony here? Rangers and Celtic are desperate to join the EPL because they know it is the only way to succeed at the top table of European football, whilst the SNP are proposing the exact reverse. Rangers and their fans face humiliation as a result and Scottish voters should take very careful note. Vote for independence and a chill wind could soon be blowing up their kilts and freezing their bollocks off!
England subsisizes Scotland?
ReplyDeleteA much repeated lie.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/scotland-12288-union-public
We bring in more in tax per person than on average in England.
Doesn't stop you whingers going on about it. Free prescriptions are paid for, just not at source. If you like it, suggest it to your Tory/LibDem Government.
Utter nonsense with the Independance malarky.... If it wasn't for OUR water, OUR electricity, OUR oil, OUR gold and other major exports England would be eff all mate, eff all.
ReplyDeleteOf course you do Jock, due to the tax on alcohol and fags. But what do you cost us? That's the issue! Rangers have a bigger gate than Norwich City but which is the better run club my Tartan friend?
ReplyDelete'...what do you cost us?'
ReplyDeleteIn that one short, question you illustrate perfectly why the union is beyond repair. Not because the Scots have suddenly become myopic nationalists and seperatists. No. The Scots want independence because at one level its a question of self-respect. You can only take the sneering condescension of England for so long.
But to the football... On the one hand, it's kinda tragic to see a club like Rangers in such trouble. I feel for the supporters of any team that this is happening too... because there but for the grace of God go West Ham and any number of other clubs. But what will be the broader consequences for Scottish football. Well, despite the triumphalism and celebratory mood of some Celtic fans, being a Celtic fan will be a little duller. We need or opponents to give definition to our own passions and sense of self.
On the other hand an end to Old Firm dominance might be a healthy thing for Scottish football, especially if it hastens the exit of Celtic, who should begin to compete in the English league, which, of course includes Welsh teams, so the inclusion of a Scottish team might make the claim to being British rather than English. What about a Belfast team in the future? There's been talk in the past about an English team relocating to Belfast. So why not a Dublin team?.
Now that does pose a set of interesting questions for nationalists of all persuasions. But would it be so bad if greater political autonomy was had by the Celtic Fringe and the constituents of these islands drew closer in cultural and sporting terms?
Why don't you stick to your little bouncy ball game?
ReplyDeleteYou're so far out of your depth here it's embarrassing. I take it the administration of Portsmouth is an appropriate metaphor for the governance of England then, is it?
Run along now - there's abuse to be aimed at a minority elsewhere.
Hammersfan Norwhich is the better run club but whats that got to do with Scottish independance?? the old argument that Scotland is funded by the english is lies, Scotland more than pays its way.
ReplyDeleteIf the epl and bing part of england is so important whay are portsmouth going into administration going into administration AGAIN
Scotland costs the UK a lot less in subsidies than Wales, Northern Ireland and most of the North East of England.
ReplyDeleteIn fact without the North Sea oil revenue we get from Scotland we'd be screwed, hence why Cameron and his cabinet of posh twats are shi**ing it at the prospect of Scottish independence.
Couple of points here. First of all, North Sea oil will run out in our lifetime. Basing a nation's finances on a dwindling resoource is absurd. Secondly, the oil fields were discovered under a British government. The oil is off shore of the British Isles, there's no requirement to pass them to Scotland should the Scots vote for independence. After all, the Scots want our army, navy and air force to defend them!
ReplyDeleteNow let's move on to costs. What the Scots don't seem to understand is that Scots receive £1,644 more in public spending per capita than English residents. That's money coming out of the English taxpayers' pocket. So, that means my family (there's four of us) are shelling out £400 to keep a Scot in his porridge and kilts. Remove that money and there is immediately a hole in your budget. Then try paying for your own defence! Love to see you try! Where's that £44billion going to come from?
Oh hang on, I forgot. Watching the Scottish national football team, you don't understand the concept of defence. Mind you, you're not too hot on attack either!
We should boost the economy by hiring every building contractor to dig a massive trench alongside Hadrians wall and then set the Scots free to float further north and to stop them crossing the border when it all goes tits up.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, give me Rangers every time over Celtic (spit).
HF,
ReplyDeleteThe Scots could point to the gross mis-management of Scottish affairs by successive governments in Whitehall.
You can talk about North Sea Oil, but Scots will recall how the wealth from the oil was squandered on paying for unemployment and failing Tory policies rather than being invested. The Thatcher government pursued a disasterous policy of de-industrialising the UK, which had a massive impact on manufacturing and jobs in Scotland and elsewhere. It also concentrated power and wealth in the south east corner of the UK, where the financial sector was. Then came the poll-tax debacle and today we with live with the consequences of decimated industries and an over reliance on the financial sector.
In it's political complexion, Scotland is a fairly social democratic country. England's attachment to neo-liberal economics and social conservativism make the two nations increasingly poor partners.
And I doubt the Scots need the British army, navy and airforce. Bloody hell, the UK government don't seem to be able to afford them any longer and in any case they were usually deployed defending US interests rather than Scottish!
Ultimately it's not about the money, is it? I mean, if it was then London would have declared its independence from all the unprofitable bits of the UK years ago - Glasgow, Liverpool, Newcastle, Cornwall, Belfast, just about everwhere.
Scotland will one day be independent and it will adjust to being a small, more modest nation. It's England I would worry more about. Hung up on eternal 'Greatness', how will it ajust to the loss of power and prestige?
Anony-mouse says
ReplyDeleteF*ck HF- you've decided to take on a nation now. I won't wish you luck. I'm too busy concentrating on our match tonight- it's a big one- Southampton at home if you didn't know. You'll find the better West ham sites are alive with talk about it.
To all those Scots that have been lured here for the first time- you need to understand that HF is a contrary, ignorant sh*t for brains only interested in website hits. If he gets loads from you guys he'll be on your case every day. I mean it. Every single day.
And if you think his Norwich City line was tenuous and non-sensical prepare yourselves for much, much more of the same irrelevant 'logic'.
I'm a proud Englishman but if I was a Scot i'd vote for independence just to disassociate myself from numptys like him.
Anyway, bye- I'm off to a West ham site. COYI!
Kevin in Manchester writes...
ReplyDeletewhether Scotland costs England or the reverse isn't the point - the fact that it creates such argument over fine distinction illustrates there is no grand larceny on either side.
Scotland has done very nicely out of the Union down the years by joining in the wealth largely created south of the border.
Historically whenever Scotland has gone it alone it usually ends in disaster; The Scottish attempt at Empire collapsed in such a farce that it actually brought about the Union.
And I fully expect that independence if it comes will result in similar catastrophe - just look at your sports teams as an example of where Hibernian Hubris gets you - not that the English are much better!
Just occured to me that if you insert i into SNP, you end up with SNIP. Cutting off the bellend of Britain perhaps?
ReplyDeleteDisgusted in you , always enjoyed the site , but you have gone below the belt and now also agree with “Anony-mouse”.
ReplyDeleteScotland without doubt has provided (and still does) most of the technology in today’s world you wouldn’t know this, but a famous Scottish university was the recent choice of a leader of Coal to Fuel manufacturer to re establish its research and development division. (How many Uni’s do you have in England? And none were chosen) All this from a nation of less than 5Bar. No wonder Scotland is subsidized, they should be looking for a S*%T load more considering we fund you. As far as your Army is concerned , you know F*^k all , the scots have been on the front line in just about every conflict , except the Boer War where your Newcastle and Liverpool recruits got the crap kicked out of them and had to resort to concentration camp tactics to win. Im sure we are more that capable of protecting the Oil fields that belong to us , even from the southerners (mind you they might resort to Nuclear when they are losing).
You’ve opened a can of worms with this one (not that I am a gers Fan, exactly the opposite, but still don’t want them do go under) there problems are many years old when they bought the nine in row , buy buying English nutters like “Gascoigne” , so maybe you could say that the ENGLISH are the cause of their downfall
Sorry Scots but I disagree with you. I'm not denying the bravery of the Scottish soldiers, but soldiers are cheap sadly. It is the equipment that is expensive. How many Tornados could Scotland afford? How many cruisers? How many Trident missiles?
ReplyDeleteThe trouble is, Scotland still wants to piggy back on England but at the same time wants all the benefits of being "independent". It reminds me of a 22 year old living in his own flat who still expects his parents to assist him to buy a washing machine, meet the deposit on his flat, and clear his credit card bills when final notice is served.
I hear about how we have forced bad governance on Scotland, but what about Blair and Brown, not to mention Wilson and Callaghan? It was the Scottish vote that gave England Labour governments!
More English voters want Scottish independence than Scots, so what does that tell you?
Let them have their independence, then without an Armed Forces the English can invade them once again and like Edward Longshanks divide up their land making them our servants!
ReplyDelete