Sometimes It Is Best To Head Off Sanctions!

What follows was posted on this blog after the Millwall “game”. I include the comments left on the article. Tell me, with the F.A. now charging the club and us already out of the Cup, who was right? I’m not seeking to be smug here, merely pointing out that sometimes you gain more by taking the “long view” rather than the “short view”. Had we resigned from the Cup and issued a heart felt apology, I suspect this matter would have been put to bed. As it is, God knows what will now happen!

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It wasn't the club, it was the fans; it's not a football issue, it's a problem in society; what about the policing?; the main violence was outside the ground; the Millwall fans were to blame.

All of these points will be made, all of these excuses will be given, but at the end of the day, none of it washes. The scenes IN and AROUND Upton Park last night were truly disgraceful and action has to be taken or there is a real danger that "fans" of other clubs will watch the news footage and fancy a bit of it themselves. How many idiots around the country will watch "Green Street" and other films glorifying football violence and think, "We should have a 'firm'!"? What if it kicks off at the Emirates tonight with Celtic fans deciding to exit the Champions League in a trail of destruction?

The hard truth is that this was inevitable: inevitable because it was Millwall but more importantly because, for too long, the club have tolerated the intolerable. I have used this blog to condemn the hissing employed (in games against Tottenham) to simulate the sound of the gas chambers; and I invited the usual threats of violence from the thugs when I spoke against against the abuse of Lampard and Terry. But what action has the club taken exactly? It is now so easy to identify the culprits with numbered seats and CCTV. Why are the guys who participate in this abhorrent behaviour allowed to return to the ground? We hear mantras like "Kick Racism Out Of Football" yet we allow a section of our fan base to "joke about" the extermination of nearly six million people based on their race and religion. If you accept the unacceptable, something awful will happen sooner or later. Last night has been coming.

The club should now take the moral high ground and hurt the idiots where it hurts most. We should resign our position in the Carling Cup and ask that Millwall be allowed to take our place. Like that, we will distance ourselves absolutely from the disgraceful behaviour that otherwise will be associated with the club. Every effort should then be made to identify the idiots responsible last night and to ban them for life. And we should not stop there. The hissing should be stopped. The abuse of individuals should be stopped.

We must clean up our act and bowing out of the Cup, unfortunately, would be the right first step. It is time for action, not words.

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Comments Left:

Anonymous said...
So we should punish the majority of good West Ham fans and the team (all of whom are completely innocent) because of a mindless moronic few(most of whom are not even real football fans), and then reward the Millwall thugs (again the minority, most Millwall fans I know are great people) by putting them in the next round at our expense?

You really are an attention seeking idiot.
26 AUGUST 2009 11:37

Anonymous said...
I'm sorry but there seems to be a massive over reaction to what happened inside the ground as far as I can see(I'm not talking about outside). Don't get me wrong, I do not in any way condone violence and I wasn't at the game but from video evidence the majority of fans were on the pitch celebrating with only a few getting involved in violence at the Milwall end, these are the fans that should be banned.

Make no mistake, there were only a very few, the rest were celebrating and perhaps goading but you can't go banning for life those celebrating on the pitch, o.k. they shouldn't invade the pitch and it shouldn't have happened and these people should be banned for the season and not for life for just running on the pitch, that would be ridiculous.

If you heard Thompson on Sky you would have thought that world war 1 had broken out, the guy is an idiot and should have reported the reality and not what he 'believed' to be going on inside the ground so please, can we have a little bit of thought about it all before you start to declare the ICF are back and West Ham are mindless thugs because it only plays in to the hands of the gutter press.
26 AUGUST 2009 11:44

Hammersfan said...
You clearly have not heard of the phrase, "the Moral High Ground" 1137.

1144 The only reason there wasn't a pitched battle on the field of play is because the Millwall fans INSIDE the ground behaved themselves. Had they spilled onto the pitch, God knows what would have happened. It wasn't only "running on the pitch" - it was goading Millwall players and fans trying to provoke a ruck.
26 AUGUST 2009 11:58

Duxbury's eyebrows said...
Fair point, but it takes two to tango as Millwall have their fair share of mindless idiots as well you know. As to who stated it? Doesn't matter anymore as it's like my two kids when they start arguing, bickering and fighting, they both become as bad as each other. The club can only control what happens inside the ground and not what happens down Green Street, that is as I have said in another post, down to the police to control as that is what the club pay the Met six figure sums for. So maybe the police should have been a it more clued up. As for that stupid Green Street film, that was as plastic as Micheal Jackson and all of the people that I know who have seen it, just like I found it laughable, I doubt that the film was a factor. I think a fine for both clubs and a life time ban for all the idiots involved and even prison sentences for some would suffice as I think that last night was a one off. The lesson to be learnt from all of this is not to rest on our laurels. But it's funny how so much anger and hatred is manifested whenever we have a shit government in charge, so much anger and frustration that vents itself at the slightest thing. Bring back Acid House!!!
26 AUGUST 2009 12:11

col said...
Goading is one thing and it doesn't mean trying to start a ruck, I saw a West Ham fan goading a Milwall player, running passed the said player at the time, he could quite easily have started a ruck but he didn't so please shut up and stop over reacting like most toe rag journos are, goading is part of football, always has been and always will be so don't try to tell me just because we were goading we were actually starting a ruck. Pathetic.
26 AUGUST 2009 12:15

Anonymous said...
Again, i find myself reading this pointless post... Not sure why, and i will turn off Blogs again in Newsnow... but i can't not comment on this.

Like one guy said - the ctions inside the ground weren't as bad as people are making out. the pitch invasion isn't exactly the wortst crime in the world - there's bound to be rivalries in ths tie like this and whether its the police's fault for not having enough men to cope, or west ham's - to chuck west ham out of the comp is ridiculous!! millwall were beaten by and evetual better team - thats all that matters!! anything that happens off the pitch, (i know the irony there) should stay in the hands (and feet) of the players!!

most, if not 90% of the trouble happened outside of the ground, where i assume it is up to the met police to deal with. The majority of both sides fans, behaved well. the banter (albeit, maybe a little to far) insdie the ground was always going to happen. you won't ever stop that unless you ban away supporters.

the police should have had more men on the ground, and in the tube station to handle the violent fans.

is it an excuse - sure, but it would be wrong to chuck west ham out of teh comp, just because of a small minority of thugs.
26 AUGUST 2009 12:17

Anonymous said...
Please go away you petty little prat.
26 AUGUST 2009 12:52

Anonymous said...
Just to balance things up, I was there last night and aggravation errupted from the monkey chanting at Carlton Cole and the sick songs being directed at Jack Collison and Calum Davenport. No excuse for the behaviour of the few idiots who got on the pitch but not right to call for resigning the cup place. You're wrong there, and must not have been at the game.
26 AUGUST 2009 13:16

Anonymous said...
I was there and whilst the behaviour was poor there were so many teenagers and young men there that I have never seen before, all of them moving through the rows to get a shout in at the away fans across the large expanse to divide fans.

I don’t understand why so many strangers got tickets when the club said only previous purchase history would be allowed, I can only think they have been rather naïve in ticketing.

Certainly there are those that fought the police that should get prosecuted. And those that threw things down at the police (cups fag packets etc.... should also get prosecuted, but don't believe for a moment the away fans are innocent, they were vile.

Re hissing are you sure you are not confusing shh it’s like a library in here, as is a common song when facing Tottenham because they are so quiet....it was the same last night once West ham went ahead.

Certainly the police pushing the camera in peoples faces to take pictures, and I do mean exactly that: it was almost a macro photography and then progressing to photograph every one in the stand, whether they were involved or peacefully watching the game from their seat is hardly helping matters.

I guess the club and fans will be hit hard by knee jerk reactions that the English are now famous for as they become judge and jury based upon media articles.
26 AUGUST 2009 13:30

Anonymous said...
The Millwall fans inside the ground behaved themselves????

Did you hear what they were singing from the very begining about Davenport and Jack's dad????

They were in there to purely provoke, not too mention the reason that side of the West Ham tryed to get over to them is because the Millwall fans were throwing there broken seats at them!!!!

I do not agree with the violence one bit, but DO NOT for one second say they behaved themselves!

They done exactly what you do, wound people up to get a reaction so it looks like they are the inocent party!

Moral high ground my arse the players won that game the deserve to get through to the next round especially after most of them played Sunday.

Do yourself and the everyone else a favour, don't pay your internet bill for 6 months get cut off, and then come back when you have some sense!
26 AUGUST 2009 14:16

Fonzie's Bald Patch said...
Hardly fair on the players who managed to turn a shit performance into something worth celebrating by the majority of fans who were there.

What would you like to say to them, sorry you lost at the weekend to one of your rivals, sorry one of your team mates got stabbed, sorry Jack you had to endure songs about your Dad from scum, sorry Carlton you were racially abused but because a few spoilt it for us we're just going to write off everything you have done and give up this chance.

What does that say to the people who were there and behaved themselves - you don't count.
It's simple ban those who need to be banned and publically condemn it.

The question should be asked why 850 police officers marshaled the lunch time Tottenham game and only 350 were there for last night?

I also agree with other statements about the media - the violence outside the ground was disgusting but what actually happened was a pitch invasion in celebration which has been picked up and magnified, yes there was some jeering by idiots but the whole thing itself wasn't as bad as made out.
The problem is we live in society fuelled by Maxwell's sensationalist media empire and this blog is an exact mirror of that the only thing I agree with in this whole article is the hissing part and to the poster who commented this:

'Re hissing are you sure you are not confusing shh it’s like a library in here, as is a common song when facing Tottenham because they are so quiet...'

You are joking right?
It's a vile addition to a classless song and if you need figure the connection and believe what you have typed then I'd love to live in your world.
26 AUGUST 2009 14:49

el martillo said...
Definitely not. It would just be an empty gesture in view of the fact that everything is in place to deal with the problem properly. Why punish the players and the decent fans for the behaviour of a minority?

It is quite possible to track the movements and behaviour of virtually everyone in the ground. A sliding scale of offences could be established and culprits punished and in some cases banned for life. Those who are not ST holders or club members of one sort or another will almost certainly be on a database somewhere and each ticket carries an identity.

Why haven't they done it before? The same reason they will only make examples of a few this time....you don't upset the paying customer.

I suspect the club is well aware of the hissing, racial abuse and threats of violence in the crowd but have decided that tackling the problem doesn't make a very good business case. Just keep a lid on it and make a few gestures. Don't upset people, especially if your taking money off them......... And then it all blows up in your face.
26 AUGUST 2009 14:57

Hammersfan said...
I meant in terms of not coming onto the pitch. I am not condoning the actions of the Millwall fans but Mark Bright, when commentating, said that the Millwall fans should be "congratulated" for not coming on the pitch and said their behaviour was to be "praised" in the "circumstances". I have seen West Ham stewards struggling to hold back West Ham fans and have seen West Ham fans, not Millwall fans, goading opposition players and ignoring the pleas of their own heroes to get off the pitch. Had Millwall fans spilled onto the pitch, the game would have been abandoned. Given that would have suited them once they were behind, I think they showed commendable restraint INSIDE the ground. That is not to say that they were blameless. I am afraid West Ham fans have no right to object to obscene chanting given the stuff dished out to Defoe, Ince, Lampard and Terry. Pots and kettles comes to mind!
26 AUGUST 2009 14:59

Fonzie's Bald Patch said...
"I think they showed commendable restraint INSIDE the ground."

That's why Sky Sports News is showing the shamed up seats in the away section then and actually (finally) concede it's not all West Ham?

Either way this comes down to knee jerk over reaction.
The police should have dealt with the violence outside that was clearly as much both sets of 'fans', they should consider the actions of the pitch invaders and punish accordingly.
26 AUGUST 2009 15:34

Anonymous said...
you idiot, of course west ham fans have a right to object to obscene chanting. I object to it. I have a right to. Just because some other idiots have slagged off terry's mum or whoever, doesn't negate my right to be offended when millwall were blatantly racist and deeply offensive to collison.
fans who stoop to that level have no right to complain but for those who don't you have to voice your disgust or they will just get away with it
26 AUGUST 2009 15:43

Hammersfan said...
Then you agree that the foul abuse should not be tolerated? I agree with you. Identify and ban those who targeted Lampard, Terry and Defoe; and all those who hissed against Tottenham. That would be progress. But as Marty says, that would cost the club money.
26 AUGUST 2009 15:48

Anonymous said...
so you agree that West Ham fans do have the right to object to obscene chanting?
26 AUGUST 2009 16:04

Hammersfan said...
Of course they do, but not by running on to the pitch and trying to attack the perpetrators. On that basis, Lampard and Terry would have the right to go into the crowd and thump their tormentors.
26 AUGUST 2009 16:10

Anonymous said...
You don't think that the only reason perhaps that Milwall fans didn't invade the pitch was because there was only 3000 of them. So they were more easily contained by the Hi-Vis brigade. Versus, what, 25000 Hammers? They're not that stupid. They could see it would have been a bad move as they would perceive themselves as vastly outnumbered inside the stadium.
Giving up our place to Milwall is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Not only does it imply our total culpability but would only cause more resentment amongst that kind of "fan" towards Milwall, and then potentially more trouble.
We need to understand that provocation is accepted as a reason for certain, but not all, things. Legally, provocation is considered when judging crimes, but only considered. The media will go with the line that gets them the biggest reaction and allows them the greatest impact (rather like this blog). They aren't going to show Milwall fans chanting racist and wholely offensive muck, they'll simply show the 1000's of Hammers getting wound up by it. There needs to be a massive distinction made between what happened inside the stadium and outside. One was a big deal, one wasn't.
27 AUGUST 2009 09:56

Justin said...
Of the people around me less than 5% were wearing colours, bunch of daygos who don't care if they get banned. Vast majority of them under 25 if not under 21. Not reflective of the usual crowd that I sit with.

Anyway:

Although there were outbreaks of violence both before and after the game - something attributed to ticket less supporters - very few incidents occurred inside the ground itself. Only ten arrests were made in total.

The pitch invasions that have received widespread media coverage today illustrate no fighting whatsoever - just jubilant home fans celebrating Junior Stanislas' equalising goal and subsequent penalty.

I am fed up of knee jerk inflammatory discussion on this. Ill informed people believing ill informed media, and getting on their high horses when they know nothing of what went on.