The truth is, Leeds have a massive fan base - as the only club in the fifth largest city in the country, they should have. The problem is, the longer the Leeds demise continues, the greater the probability that the fan base will shrink as those who remember the glory days die off.
Take last season, West Ham had an average gate of 31,079, whilst the average gate at Leeds was just 23,283, behind both Southampton and Derby County.
Now I know Leeds struggled but so did Leicester, and their average gate was just 200 below that of Leeds. A TRULY big club would maintain gates, irrespective of performance on the pitch. Man City were getting bigger gates in the third tier of English football than Leeds mustered in the Championship last season.
In 2001-02 in the Prem, the average attendance for Leeds was 39751, the fifth highest in the division, West Ham's average gate was 31570. So our fan base has remained loyal, despite the drop down the division, whilst the Leeds gate has dropped a frightening 41%! THAT is proof of how far the club has fallen.
Now nobody denies that the gates will swell again should Leeds ever return to the Prem, but what does that say about the quality of the support? Glory hunters perhaps? True fans stick with the club through thick and thin, the Leeds United mob have deserted in droves! Marching On Together? Yeah 60% do, but 40% will only march when Leeds are winning it seems!
So, that's why, at the moment, West Ham are the bigger club. Our paying fan base is larger and our fans are much more loyal. Plus we are in the Premiership, whilst Leeds are rooted in the Championship. Look at revenue generation for the two clubs and West Ham's will be far greater next season, inevitably because we are in the Prem. Look at money spent on transfer fees and West Ham will outspend Leeds, Arab billionaire owners or not.
Yes Leeds have won more trophies, but the past counts for nothing I'm afraid, as Portsmouth fans will tell you. Leeds have the POTENTIAL to be a huge club, but as Chelsea and Man City have proved, any club has that potential if the right owners buy the club. When we have moved to the Olympic stadium the Arabs might take a fancy to us and then we could leave Leeds miles behind. But that is all speculation and for now we have to live in the present. And, for the time being at least, as Snodgrass proved, even Norwich are a bigger club than Leeds! That must hurt I know, but facts are facts.
It's sad, I think, when fans desert a club and it is sad when a club with the history of Leeds United is trapped in what seems like perpetual decline. Yes the Arabs may save the club with their blood money, but they may not.
And if this take over doesn't turn out to be everything that Leeds fans are hoping for, the gap between West Ham and Leeds can only grow in our favour. In January 2014 the fair play rules will restrict what Leeds can spend on wages and transfers (that's when penalties apply for the first time) whereas, even if relegated, we will have the buffer of a season in the Prem and the parachute payments, enabling us to far outstrip Leeds on spending. That's why this season is make or break for Leeds. Miss out now and history will count for nothing. Leeds will have to operate on a level financial playing field with the likes of Derby, Leicester, Cardiff, Forest, Brighton and Ipswich, none of which are truly big clubs!
Please don't reply to this post with the usual insults; if you can counter the argument with an intelligent response, I will read with interest and concede if you prove your point.
143 comments:
you idiot, u was down 1 season, try as many season as us then we see about ur fan base. anyway comment on your own team and stop trying to get hits by commenting about leeds.
You love Leeds ;-)
Fair doos
£36 a ticket
That's where it's gone
I unlike most Leeds fans accept we are not the giant we once were, however our gates over the last few seasons have proved we do have some of the best support around.
This is proved mostly with our away support , which we have recently been proved as having the best support in the league.
The reason I think the crowds at home have declined , is mainly due to our form , a lot say it is down to not wanting to fund bates, bollocks I say you should support your club no matter what . No one had a problem with bated in league one when we spent pittance hopefully next year Warnock will have us playing well and the crowds will return , because a lot of "Leeds fans" are woodwork fans , I know this after having a season ticket since I was 4, now 20 years young. Hopefully next year we will be playing your mob in the prem , always have a soft spot for west ham , especially that year your stayed up at the expense of sheff united ,
Keep writing keep the idiots biting pal
MOT
lets see then go leeds leeds leeds
That picture above is of the away end... good work
The image is of the away end... Good work
You yourself on countless occasions prove that Leeds United is a bigger club than West Ham simply because you can not shut up talking about Leeds United. You prove that time and time again. Why not give it a rest and talk about your own club and maybe we may start to take you seriously.
That picture above is of the away end... good work
Please, please , please stop embarrassing yourself. Factor ticket prices into your argument then come back.
Please name another club which have had to suffer under the ownership of a man.like bates... leeds is one.of the most expensive tickets in england... the reason behind the drop in attendances is simply that the fans were sick of paying for bates holidays and.hotels rather than.seeing their hard earned.money re.embursed into a squad which cud take our.mighty club back.to where it belongs... thats my opinion anyway and im sure there are many fans that feel the same way...
Yet again a post that only looks at the facts that suit you, firstly leeds is the fourth biggest city (behind london, birmingham and manchester) and you miss out the fact that the biggest reason for a lack of support was the outrageous prices put in place by bates, we have the most expensive programme at £5 a copy and if you are a ticket prices are consistently over £30. That kind of pricing is fine if you're playing premier league football but if you're playing the quality we were (and I will readily admit we were very underwhelming last season) even the most die hard fans are going to find it difficult forking out those extortionate prices.... It's not that the support isn't there it's that we're being taken for every penny we have!
Interesting you talk about loyalty then talk about moving to a stadium that is clearly not in your patch? Loyal fans or not that is double standards. So no usual rubbish insults. Just a genuine question from a Leeds fan.
No convincing arguments so far then! Come on guys, try harder. Address the facts!
Do your research first before posting what is another uneducated article. Leeds fans were suffering under a ticketing price structure that was amongst the top 8 in England.
We were being charged premier league and champions league prices to watch championship football!!!!
big knob head (fact)
HF,
It is not the fans demise or level of football but the quality of the ownership and the way the club is run that has kept us away, you obviously haven't got a chairman that openly calls you morons just because you have a voice. If Ken Bates is gone before the start of the season the I reckon there will be a lot more through the turnstiles.
Tonyga
LUFCDJ
major reasons for why Leeds have seen a drop in attendance at home games are A) a poorer standard of Football coupled by increasing ticket prices and B) the fans unwillingness to fill Bates' boots. You fail to note the fans relationship with the chairman in your drivvle.
As a minority of Leeds fans I find your blog interesting albeit overly concerned about what is happening at ER. The teams are hardly rivals and unless you have any connections with the club - fans in the family or other - I don't see why you are so concerned!
We've been out of the prem 8 years u don't have a clue so stop trying to sound like an intellect!!! Forest are a bigger club as well history is what football is all about an what determines the future of the game. RETARD.
Plus you should note the numbers Leeds take to away games - on average the highest in the division last year (and likely for prior years). And yes, that includes West Ham
kenneth master bates
Haven't read it but probably a load of shite as normal
Surely you would expect to pay through the nose to watch such a huge club? West Ham season ticket prices were similar in cost to those of Leeds and we are a much smaller club according to you guys! That doesn't win the argument I'm afraid, all it does is show that Leeds fans are either paupers or tight Yorkshiremen. Talk about conforming to a stereotype!
kenneth master bates ....nuff sed
keep blowing the monkey bhoyo
too much money . also what is your obsession with leeds. you wanted a convincing argument. why dont you put one forward for talking about lufc all the time. people might take you seriously then .
shove your statistics. you are clearly not as intelligent as you seem to think you are because the truth is your just a sad person behind a computer screen who has nothing else to do than look up statistics on the net. I pity you really but i think its about time you went and got a job and gree up! Just a helpful bit of advice :)
Now, clearly you're after a reaction from Leeds fans, but I'm going to bite anyway....
Factor in ticket prices and club turnover vs investment on the pitch, and also look at the figures for the previous 4 seasons (since administration and when ticket prices were last cut to reasonable(ish) levels.
The fans are voting with their feet primarily due to the way in which Bates has been running the club - which does fit with your point on how we've fallen in all fairness, but not so much fallen as riddled with cancer, we will hopefully soon be in remission.
Very intellectual response 2210.
Some are now suggesting that they put their hatred for Bates over their love for the club. What sort of supporter would do that exactly?
None of these addresses the facts guys. I know the statistics are a bit of a bugger for your argument but facts are facts!
the past counts for nothing? you idiot, its a clubs history that makes the club what it is. thats why leeds are race horses and west ham are donkeys.make the most of your 1 season in the prem. TOSSER.
admit it you secretly support leeds we wont say anything!
I'm afraid seven years of Ken Bates has pushed many a Leeds fans patience to the limit. High ticket prices, minimal investment in the squad and a steady stream of our better players away from our club is the reason behind, for us, low attendances. When, eventually, their is a change of owner, you will see a large increase in attendances, no doubt about it.
Regarding this site, very strange. Concentrate your efforts on your own club,it's quite sad really.
How about a counter argument guys? Still waiting!
wots that u say erst hsm are much smaller lol you git tgat right
ok lets turn this round. hammersfan if you were languishing in the lower eschelons of english football with such a rich history and very recent memories of great times, would you seriously pay £32 to watch leeds v cheltenham.
that is what i did and the performance was the worst i have ever watched from my beloved team. after the game i thought to myself i could have sat in the pub for a couple hours with mates and had a laugh. instead i watched us get dismantled by cheltenham.
there have been many more horrible performences since and with a chairman who insults his fans by calling them morons etc, and spends more on executive boxes rather than squad development, it makes you wonder is it all worth it.
i would not sit in an executive box and watch my once great team sstruggle and play football which is not worth the hard earned money i am spending .
please reply hammerfan .
joe leeds
The facts are leeds are a bıg club who got bıgger gates than cıty ın leauge 1. They got ken bates lyıng cheatıng and stealıng of everyone of them, whıch he has done for 7year. Draggıng the mıghty leeds name through the mud. One of the bıggest fan bases ın the world! Massıve turnover but bates wont spend anythıng! or offer a competatıve wage a pıttance some mıght say. 7 year we have been away not 1. West ham havn't won anythıng or ever played ın europes prmıer competıtıon(have you even got a passport. leeds have and got to semıs and fınals. West ham aınt got fans all over the world leeds have. Poor team upon tıll now and charged top premıer leauge prıces. Best players sold or let go and not replaced season after season. That ıs a pıc of the away end you fool as ıf people wouldnt realıse. Fact leeds are ın a totaly dıfferent stratosphere than wet spam. Hunter gıles bremner charles charlton lorımer etc. Or yeah and the great don revıe nuff saıd wet sam are shıte :-D
The comment on the right of the page quoting the number 15 million makes me laugh!
Anyway, can i ask why you post so much about Leeds?
Maybe i can answer, you don't get enough interest in your West Spam posts, but you know that posting about Leeds will get you lots of hits and comments because of our passionate fan base. You can then show off to all your online 'buddies' how popular your blog is...
Am i close?
never replied to any website before just read the comments.
Life long Leeds fan and this guy who writes this website is good coz he must be laughing his arse off at the reaction he gets .
Thing is hes a knob who hides behind his website, sad little man with no mates , bless .
Keep following LEEDS and forget the west ham retard
You're asking for facts but are ignoring all facts being given to you, I.e. The ticket pricing, the standard of football, the promises made by the chairman, the well documented efforts of the fans to bring about change and doing so with their attendances as well as the fact that we statistically carry the best away support... If you're willing to take all aspects on board then I fully respect you but all this is pitiful west ham propaganda looking desperately for chinks in a vastly superior footballing FAMILY!
"There has been a noticeable drop in attendances in the last couple of seasons due to the increasing price of match tickets and the continued draw of television and now a curveball has been thrown at us in the form of the recession. Every club outside the Premier League is hurting as a result."
David Gold, 2009
"Very intellectual response 2210."
The fact that you are VERY patronising despite showing no better intelligence and giving constant sly digs and kicks towards Leeds is maybe why you are getting so much abuse....
And bobby Moore was the best player the world has ever seen - compare like with like you clown
top prices again , very average team .know backing from the board they would not spend there money not spending mine .no job f off you tosser
Enjoy your one season back in the prem because it wont be long before west spam are back down to where you belong
Haha buddy all you're doing is ignoring the facts put forward, you've got an opinion into your head and are refusing to change it which I suppose is admirable, mind you most people see that as ignorance, but what else can we expect from this particular blog hey ;) you're ignoring well documented disputes with the chairman (has yours ever called you morons) the fact we've been in these lower leagues for 8 years (poor you having to do it for 1 season WITH parachute payments, cry me a river!!!) And the extortionate pricing for poor quality and despite this the fan base is still getting up for the charge next season.... While you're contemplating what might happen if you go down we're only looking one way and that's UP!!!!! MOT!!
leeds a bigger club than west ham lmao. as if! maybe 5/10 yrs ago, not now. probably be back in league1 again next season. embarrassing losing your best player to a team as big as norwich, just goes to show how big a club leeds are. COYI cant wait to see match of the day this season rather than having to watch the (boring) football league show, its just not quite the same. oh well leeds will be able to look forward to participating in the johnstones paint trophy season after next, a bit more silverware for the trophy cabinet for ya's! lmao
bore off
Thing is Joe, that applies to West Ham too. How many miserable, miserable performances have we had to endure? But our support has held up regardless. The ticket prices argument doesn't wash either guys, as West Ham season tickets are amongst the most expensive in the country too. Remember, we are comparing the two clubs here. Do you think we treasure Sullivan and Gold? they are not AS unpopular as Bates - yet! But ask Birmingham fans what they think of them! And before them we had the Icelandic bank fiasco, and before that one Terrence Brown, who is now back at the club and did to us what Bates is doing to Leeds!
So still no counter argument I'm afraid.
As for the away support, not sure where you are getting your stats from. Try this link which suggests that West Ham's away support was bigger than the Leeds away support. If you have an alternative site showing different stats, please share! And do keep in mind that more West Ham games were televised, reducing the gate and making travelling on a Monday night more difficult for West Ham fans! Another factor is the geographical clustering of clubs.
http://www.footballforums.net/forums/showthread.php/277307-Championship-Away-Following-2011-12
the fact is mate thst leeds are at a critical point in their history-any clubs gates would drop after going through so much shit for nearly 10 years. massive turnover of players and poor standards of football make it hard for a new generation of fans to 'bond'with the club. add to that high ticket prices in tough financial times.( i had to forfeit my season ticket because i now work most saturdays) :( . anyway,i like the debates you start-r u going to wolves game?
Come on Leeds' fans! Stop all your protesting and crying ang just show up to a couple of your team's matches! Home or Away! Then you can turn all that fiction you have been sprouting into Fact!
2248 - The Wolves game? Why would I watch Championship football mate? Sadly, your honest reply supports the argument that West Ham have now over taken Leeds. Your points are all fair but explain Leeds United's decline.
1 question.. & please answer it HF..
How can you talk about loyalty when as a West Ham Utd fan you dedicate a West Ham Utd blog to Leeds United..??
How peculiar..??
Whilst it is a tad strange that our friend from the big city has such a fascination with Leeds, the facts, as presented by Hammersfan can't really be argued with. We can point to the truly awful Bates creature, and the somewhat perverse business plan that he has sought to persue, the pound of flesh that he demands again and again, the selling of our best players-again and again, or the nonsense of allowing contracts to run down - again and again, the insults that the crazed old man throws at his own customers - again and again, etc, etc, ad nauseum. nevertheless less Hammersfan has a point, why have so many Leeds fans stopped going to matches - notwithstanding the fact that our away support is second to none? For my own part, season after season I renew my season tickets, in the hope that the miracle will happen. On the eve of a new season, once again hope springs eternal, and now the realistic hope that Bates buggers off once and for all. Yet none of this changes the point, many supporters will not attend games. The question of what makes a big club a big club, is not a simple one, it is a combination of many factors, but the level at which your club plays and number of people who turn up are both salient points. So , for the moment, on that score Pest ham are the bigger club, but let's not forget that while we could not beat the hammers last season, neither could they beat us!
I've not read the above responses so apologise if this duplicates the obvious point you've missed. A like-for-like comparison would be the first season following Leeds' relegation from the PL. You compared the average gate of last season with West Ham's first year down. Get your sample correct (Leeds first season in the second tier) and you have a reasonable argument.
My understanding is that the gates have fallen over the years we have been down coupled with the distaste for the current ownership of the club. Can you respond with a reasonable and fair sample?
If that substantiates your position I would accept that as one of a number of measures of 'club size'.
fair point hammersfan. suppose you could onnly understand if you were a leeds fan and although you are asking for counters which you are getting but not accepting probably because the preconception you have of leeds fans deserting in droves which to be honest isnt as a bad as your making out , is one which you are not willing to budge on. just a thought
joe leeds
Ok hf your right the whole city of Leeds is wrong. Everything you say is gold is that what you want to hear? Looked at some of your very few blogs about the bubble blowers. Not many replies are their? Question to you. Does writing about Leeds and it appearing on news now in the Leeds section keep you blog going. I mean west ham site and all your columns are about Leeds. Why so many few replies when you write about WH but lot more when you write about Leeds. Are our fans more passionate? Will you answer?
Your a moron
Ok hf your right the whole city of Leeds is wrong. Everything you say is gold is that what you want to hear? Looked at some of your very few blogs about the bubble blowers. Not many replies are their? Question to you. Does writing about Leeds and it appearing on news now in the Leeds section keep you blog going. I mean west ham site and all your columns are about Leeds. Why so many few replies when you write about WH but lot more when you write about Leeds. Are our fans more passionate? Will you answer?
@HAMMERSFAN yeah-history is all well and good but i wanna live in the here and now.and right now you are prem and we arent .enjoy the premiership.i have no doubt in my mind that leeds will be a massive club again very soon-and no leeds fans will respond to this blog anymore cos we will be too busytalking about our champions league fixtures or our new superstar striker while you toil in MIDTABLEPREM/AVOIDINGRELEGATIONPREM/CHAMPIONSHIP :( thats your next 20 years mapped out
I feel for you Maz and for all the genuine Leeds fans who have stuck with the club despite all the crap. As for us not beating you last season, we can never beat you! If you judged Leeds based purely on head to head results against West Ham, you would be the biggest club in the world! That's why I, for one, feel the rivalry so keenly! If we beat you regularly, I wouldn't be so interested in you! But my interest is genuine because I am a traditionalist and it feels wrong for Leeds to be in the old Division 2, whilst the likes of Wigan, are in the Prem.
for what its worth, I find your blog reasonably amusing, even if I disagree with much of the content. Keep it up!
You have a BIG problem it,s spelled LEEDS and you are obvious very jealous at our club and we´ll be buzzing around in your tiny hammerhead-brain as long as you live. Must be extremely boring supporting West Ham. I,m from Sweden MOT all whites.
2259 makes a very good point hf. as do the others about length of time outside prem. need to widen the spectrum a little.
joe leeds
Leeds Utd have spent 8 consecutive seasons outside the premier league, we are still talked about in red tops and media as much as any premier club even after 8 seasons away .
If Best Ham were out for nine seasons in a row they would get the equivalent media attention of a leyton orient!
Also after nine seasons only this last season leeds fans have really voted with their feet as they are sick of parting cheeks and taking deeper ramming from bates....our arses are red raw after 7 years of his rule and they all look like japanese flags!
In the last nine years Best Ham have been out of the premier league for 2 years , you can hardly compare attandances with a club that hasnt seen premier football for 8 consecutive years.
Also west hams biggest transfer fee paid was thomas hitzelsperger 9.5million from lazio
Leeds biggest transfer spend 18million rio ferdinand from west ham!
Of the last 8 years west ham have spent 6 of them in the premier league & 2 in the championship with an average total attendance of 4484.196 million spectators in this time period
In comparison Leeds Utd have spent 5 years in the championship and 3 years in league 1 with an average total attendance of 3963.767 million spectators in this time period
West ham have had a total average of 520.429 more spectators , this works out at 65 more fans on average at each home game in 8 years compared to leeds Utd
Factoring in the fact west ham have been playing in a higher league with lower ticket prices for the majority of this time , and leeds spent 3 years in the old 3rd division with premier league ticket prices then you have to say with west hams average of 65 more fans per game it pretty feeble and really proves that the leeds fans have been OVERLY loyal and have put up with high ticket prices 3rd divison football, crap players .
To summarise leeds Utd ARE & WILL always be a HUGE club despite the adversity and nearly a decade in the wilderness
You better post this comment bubbles ive put alot of research into it !
Fact 1 . you are correct west ham had more average fans than leeds last yr however over the last 15yrs when both clubs have been in the same division the stats are as follows...
1999/00 leeds ave 39155 wham 25093
2000/01 leeds 38974 wham 25697
2001/02 leeds 39778 wham 31567
2002/03 leeds 39120 wham 34432
2004/05 leeds 29207 wham 27403
in our first season in league one in 2007/08 we averaged 26546
Factor in the sky high cost of tickets, the fact we all hate pappa smurf and the 7 years of total mediocrity and attendances will obviously fall.Were wham or any club to spend so much time away from the top division their attendances would also fall dramatically.So 1 swallow doesnt make a summer mate and if you succeed in getting that new stadium you better hope leeds are in your division to help you fill it up.... LONDONLEEDS66
Fact 1 . you are correct west ham had more average fans than leeds last yr however over the last 15yrs when both clubs have been in the same division the stats are as follows...
1999/00 leeds ave 39155 wham 25093
2000/01 leeds 38974 wham 25697
2001/02 leeds 39778 wham 31567
2002/03 leeds 39120 wham 34432
2004/05 leeds 29207 wham 27403
in our first season in league one in 2007/08 we averaged 26546
Factor in the sky high cost of tickets, the fact we all hate pappa smurf and the 7 years of total mediocrity and attendances will obviously fall.Were wham or any club to spend so much time away from the top division their attendances would also fall dramatically.So 1 swallow doesnt make a summer mate and if you succeed in getting that new stadium you better hope leeds are in your division to help you fill it up.... LONDONLEEDS66
This guy is moronic and the fact that it keeps popping up on news now is getting increasingly tedious.
Leeds did indeed have the highest average ticket prices in the league, and as a result the "glory fans" stayed at home. I would be worried with West Hams proximity to London if they didn't have a greater average attendance.
Furthermore the first season in the championship we averaged 29,678 and this year West Ham averaged 30,097 and you got promoted unlike us.
And one fact that is for certain i know which stadium i would rather be in when it's rocking and which club takes the greatest away support in all the country. The mighty whites.
MOT.
why dont u look at the football leagues site and u will see that leeds had an higher away attendance than wet spam u muppet
Geographical clustering my arse mate... After checking the table for last year... I can confirm there were 11 clubs including yourself that I would class as southern clubs whereas there were 7 that I would class as northern... Now I hear you say what about the other 6... Now those are what I class as Midlands clubs... Ones equidistant from Leeds and London.... Furthermore being a small time clubs like yourselves... Your fan base isnt really widespread... Whereas I being a Leeds fan am from Herefordshire... We also have a massive fanbase overseas.... When asked about west ham most people probably ask is that some kind of cured pork?? Go back to your little hole mate... Walk on
Why the hell are you lot reasoning with a west ham fan who is clearly getting off on responses? Wake up! Smell the coffee! And stop horing yourselves to him MOT
You are all quoting history. I accept that in the past you were a bigger club, but we are not in the past, we are in the present. Gates from years back count for nothing do they, all they do is highlight the extent of your decline.
The 'facts' that come out of your blogs are a) you are quite clearly obsessed with Leeds and it's fans and b) you are quite clearly jealous of Leeds and it's fans. You know in your heart that regardless of league position West Ham will NEVER be the club Leeds are. It's amusing that you are desperately trying to convince yourself otherwise.
There must be a reason for this fetish you have with our great club? Apart from the obvious like the need to target a team that actually has a decent support to fill your, quite frankly poor, blog with comments. Tell me, were you bullied by a Leeds fan at school?
Well done. you have waited 15yrs to make that statement,allow me to supply you with some stats.average attendances for the 2 clubs when in same division
1999/00 leeds 39155 wham 25093
2000/01 leeds 38974 wham 25697
2001/02 leeds 39778 wham 31567
2002/03 leeds 39120 wham 34432
2004/05 leeds 29207 wham 27403
our first season in league 1(2007/08) we averaged 26546
Factor in sky high ticket prices ,the fact we hate pappa smurf and 7years of abject failure and you should understand the attendance drop off. No team in the land would maintain their average after spending 7yrs outside the premier league including 3 yrs in league 1. Still you better hope that leeds do return because if you get that new stadium you will need us to turn up to help you fill it.
& West Ham are such a big club that they couldn't sell their massive 1500 allocation at Man U(sorry to swear lads)the season before last. There's a fact for you HF & don't bother denying it, as I was there (in the WH end), whilst you were no doubt on your laptop writing about Leeds. We take more to pre-season friendlies against non league teams in Cornwall ffs but you're right HF West Ham are a much, much bigger club.
Good effort 2310 but doesnt alter the facts does it. And your "fact" about our record signing is wrong so I'm worried about the veracity of the rest of your stats.
Julie, a Leeds fan with a brain, and a female fan into the bargain! Is it a pretty head that has come up with all that or are you a typical Leeds "sort"? The trouble is, all your facts relate to the past and I have no argument with you at all on that score. Leeds WERE a bigger club than West Ham as your stats prove. Now, roll forward to the present and, as you are a lover of stats, what do they show and prove about the relative size of the two clubs? And I'm sure you can confirm that, contrary to popular myth, size does matter!
Bertie, you went to Old Trafford to watch West Ham. God, we are so much bigger than Leeds that Leeds fans are drawn to our away games! As I remember it, that game was on a Sunday afternoon and was televised. What sort of fool travels to Manchester to watch us get thumped when you can sit in a London pub and drown your sorrows as we get thumped?
"What sort of fool travels to Manchester to watch us get thumped when you can sit in a London pub and drown your sorrows as we get thumped?"
A poor excuse for a fan.
I'm not a masochist!
ur not reading muppet OFFICAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE FACTS AND STATS AVERAGE AWAY ATTENDANCES 2011/2012 LEEDS 2,896 COMPARED TO WET SPAM 2,792 so poke ur facts u bellend
The last Leeds time spent this long outside the prem we came back stronger won the league and were a force in europe.Losing our best players didnt help along with bates not reinvesting......hiking ticket prices......disliking the fans.......its no wonder fans had stayed away but its about to change Warnock has his team now built by him and this is the start of better days ahead
2352 Crikey, post the link! 104 more fans on average. And that offsets the 8,000 fewer home fans does it?
You will note that when a club goes down and stays down over the years it loses paying fans through the gates. I would have thought this would be plainly obvious but clearly not. Ergo for your weak argument to hold any water West Ham would have needed to be down the same amount of time impossible I know but that why your whole argument is highly intagible, neither Leicester or Derby have sunk as low as Leeds either. On top of these facts the fact is that anyone who deems the 'big club' tags as important is retarded. There are 4 maybe 5 big clubs in England, 2 in Spain, 3 in Italy etc etc why you would wish a shit argument on such a point is baffling.
You do indeed appear to love Leeds a little too much. By your logic we are in stalemate, we have the history, you have mediocrity which is pretty imeasurable so i guess it will depend on who reaches the heights again next. personally I don't fancy your chances.
Yep Warnock is building his team. Like he did at Palace. Five signings from clubs RELEGATED from the Championship last season! And your best player sold!
Not only do you know bugger all about football,you also know bugger all about geography. Leeds is the 3rd biggest city in the country. You're really on a sticky wicket,comparing your club to Leeds. Your club hero is the Bogota bracelet bandit,you're owned by "men" who have made their fortunes in the sexual exploitation of women. Your proposed move to the olympic stadium is so bent and underhand it makes Rebekah Brookes, activities look like pinching sweets. Oh and when you talk about Leeds thugs,here's a few names for you-hartson,dicks,ruddock,ward,bonds,robson. I could go on and on. Your club is a filthy little insignificant boil on the arse of british football,you're even sponsored by the company who supply the chosen footwear of terrace thugs and your matchday magazine is sold in plain brown bags.
2359, you seem to have missed the opening paragraph!
"Every time I write about Leeds, somebody counters with a claim that Leeds are a bigger club than West Ham. I'm not sure how that is relevant to any argument - it belongs in the playground with "My Dad is bigger than your Dad!" - but I am happy to address the claim here."
doesnt matter if its just 1 retard u said in an earlier post that wet spam had a bigger away attendance and u dont so ur now lying to try and make out wet spam r a bigger team wen clearly they r not, time to take ur meds and blow urself
Sorry to disappoint u HF, but was with work I'm afraid. Yeh it was televised but was a Saturday ko & yes u got thumped but being your 1st or 2nd away game of the season u & the rest of your support didn't know how cr*p u were gonna be did you. Those that went were great btw ('Let's pretend we scored a goal'). U seem to be scrambling around the bottom of the barrel a bit now blaming the ko time. Our pre-seasons in Cornwall (where we took more than u did to Man U remember) were night kick offs. Bristol Rovers where we took 4 or 5k from memory, or putting it another way our full allocation, was a Friday night KO. So let's see how honest u are then HF. Do u honestly think that your 2nd team would have failed to sell a 1500 allocation anywhere, in any division, bearing in mind that this hasn't happened for at least the last decade(even when getting relegated to the 3rd div)? Fair's fair HF you're going to have to come clean that when it comes to away support you're simply not in the same league. Now u don't want me coming on here & letting everybody know what you took to Boro on a 3pm Saturday afternoon ko (or do u?) or what u took to Liverpool & I could go on (I have a tendency to do so).
There are many more Leeds fans the world over, at a guess.
But what have wham achevied since Leeds have dropped out of the premiership.... Nothing.
FACT..If it wasnt for your link on News Now Leeds, you would literally be blogging to yourself!
As for your claim that history plays no part in how big a club is now, well you know that rubbish.
Your silence is deafening hammersfan
Yes.... We would take so many more but small time clubs like yourself wont allocate us.more tickets....
Find it funny how you keep asking lufc fans to come up with a good reason for these attendances but you're still not giving us a reason for writing news about leeds on a hammers fan forum! haha secret leeds fan
What do you class as a bigger club? Attendances are just relative to the time so you haven't really got an argument.
Let's look at some proper facts!
Leeds have the a better domestic and European stats.
Leeds have a better head to head record against wham
Leeds have overall better attendance records over the last 70 years home and away.
Leeds have a bigger ground and a bigger fan base!
A pattern is forming here........
So wham are in the perm but for how long? Leeds are in the champ but for how long?
Are you still going to be blogging rubbish on this site when the table are turn or when we beat you the next time the two teams meet or is this site going to vanish into thin air?
Oh and just another fact looking at your site! You post more things about Leeds then you do your own or any other team and you also have more comments on your blogs from Leeds fans than any other team even your own..... FACT!
FACT - The biggest average away following at games was for Leeds United (2,896), followed by West Ham United (2,792). Sheffield Wednesday (2,436) had the highest average following in npower League 1 and Swindon Town (893) in npower League 2.
Football League official stats!
http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/AttendanceStats/0,,10794,00.html
FACT - Leeds is the 3rd largest city in the UK:
http://www.ukcities.co.uk/populations/
FACT- West Ham are a little club in London.
FACT - you are an idiot!
LEEDS face it you have no argument, west ham are a bigger and better club than you are and the fact u have to keep calling HF a moron proves you have no argument and you sound like a bunch of 13 year old girls who are throwing tantrums. im with u HF. leeds face it your SHITE and are gonna continue to be for the next few yrs. COYI loving life in the premiership (that alone proves whu are the bigger club!) Nsereko savio was our top transfer get your facts right u MORON!! (as u like to put it) plus we spent 6 lovely yrs in the premiership before we were relegated so im confident we'll be looking at another 6 yrs or more in the premiership (not the 1 year that you suggested!) whilst your BIG club leeds (LMAO) jump between league 1 and the championship for the next six yrs at least. COYI and bring on the premiership
also comments like wet spam best ham and other silly childish remarks shows you have no constructive argument about the fact. we could start calling you 'weeds' or 'needs' because lets face it your club is in some serious 'needs' of proper help. but im not gonna go there that would be childish lol COYI
One of your responses is thus;
2359, you seem to have missed the opening paragraph!
"Every time I write about Leeds, somebody counters with a claim that Leeds are a bigger club than West Ham. I'm not sure how that is relevant to any argument - it belongs in the playground with "My Dad is bigger than your Dad!" - but I am happy to address the claim here."
Well, every time you write about Leeds someone calls you a bell-end. Blah blah blah
It's sad that an hammer fan is always looking at fault at Leeds united and its fans its it because your a closet Leeds fan I think so I can say one thing you are blowing bubbles its just they are coming out of your arse as normal grow up you idiot and get your facts right dumb southern c**t
West Ham are cheaper to go and see. London is an expensive place to live, and wages are higher to compensate. But you're cheaper than Leeds and your supporters earn more. Football costs more now to go to, in real terms, than it ever has. In Revie's time a match ticket cost about 20p, or its pre-decimal equivalent. Crowds were much bigger, albeit capacities were greater. Match attendances are more price sensitive now. Ken Bates is ringing every last penny out of Leeds' fans. Britain is now in an economic depression: double-dip recession, 3rd qtr of negative growth currently. London/the South has always been better-off than the rest of England, the great North-South divide. And as has been said above, Leeds is going into its 9th season outside the PL, due wholly to a lousy crooked bastard chairman, who's draining all the profits out of the club. Don't confuse big with wealthy, especially not in these times, for obvious reasons. The Sheiks and Oligarchs, and Sky's money have skewered the game. There's no rivalry between Leeds and West Ham, because they're apples and oranges. Don't know why you're trying to make one. Finally, isn't it telling how many replies you get? Wouldn't get that from trying to tease another club like yourselves. A Charlton or a Millwall, for example.
Your just a tiny shitty London club and you know it qpr and fulham piss all over you
Leeds are in the doldrums, laid low. Whereas WH are doing averagely well, for WH.
You said all this crap in another blog your a w&nker !!!
2500 away following at Torquay last weekend for a pre-season friendly. Stitch that you cockney c**t!
How f-cking deluded are you the only thing west ham are known for is lampard once played for you & some of world cup winning team that's it nothing else !!!!! Your a w&nker no wonder people think cockneys are w&nkers is west ham that shit you need to talk about Leeds
0545, it's only because so many of your fans don't have passports to holiday abroad!
C&B Army, how about we call them Special Leeds? Tongues lolling to one side, dribble down the chin, that typical vacant look in the eyes...
Yawn
The basis of the counter argument seems to be:
1) It's the fault of Master Bates.
2) Approximately 3,000 die hards travel to away games.
3) What do you expect when Leeds have been out of the Prem for so long.
None of which, guys, counters my argument. 3,000 Ultras does not a big club make.
Master Bates is your owner and Chairman and until this take over happens, that will remain the case.
Leeds have been out of the Prem for so long because you USED to be a big club. West Ham are a bigger club because when we went down, we strengthened in order to get straight back up, unlike Birmingham and Blackpool, oh and unlike Leeds when you went down! Big clubs, truly big clubs, like Man Utd and Arsenal and Liverpool don't get relegated. Could you see any of those spending 8 years outside the Prem? And for the record, West Ham have not spent 8 years out of the Prem / First Division in my lifetime! Why? Because we are a bigger club than the shell that remains of the once great Leeds United, a bigger club now than Special Leeds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England_by_major_honours_won
Wet Sham are such a successful club they have even won less trophies than the Blunts!!
When did Wet Sham last win anything of note?
You have never won the First Division something that is an achievement over 40 games.
Mind you, your away attendance was more than Leeds last season........Well Done!!!
So on top of all your trolling you've made fun of the mentally disabled and made a sexist comment to a female Leeds fan. You're clearly a pretty unsavory individual...
The mentally disabled? I was taking the piss out of Special Leeds fans. Are you all mentally disabled?
There's a simple answer to this article.
When you (rarely) find anything to mention about wet spam, how many responses do you get?
When you keep on posting Leeds articles how many responses do you get?
Proves just who ARE the bigger club, and whose fans are more passionate about their team.
Yet again you are proven wrong.....
... quite obvious, then, why you post so many Leeds articles then, even if you have to make them up - just to draw attention to this site?
"So on top of all your trolling you've made fun of the mentally disabled and made a sexist comment to a female Leeds fan. You're clearly a pretty unsavory individual..."
Do you really expect anything different here....?
0811, QPR were my Premiership club for last season and they are not a big club are they? I have adopted Leeds as my Championship club for this season because of Warnock.
Yes Leeds fans do gob off a lot but that is not proof that you are a big club. Look at the quality of the comments. It doesn't say a lot about the intelligence of your fan base does it? That's not true of all of you guys, and I am enjoying the banter with some. That's part of the joy of football isn't it, taking pot shots at each other. There's no need for anybody to get vicious - and sadly some of your fans have posted hideous things like wishing death upon my family - and, to be fair, most of you guys stay within acceptable boundaries. Your passion as fans is commendable; however, a greater sense of perspective would no go amiss! Take the hatred for Master Bates. He took the club on when you were in a truly dire state and has built a platform. If the Arabs do buy you, a debt of gratitude may actually be owed to him!
our fanbase is global! your fanbase comes from a 3 mile sodamy circle in the crappy end of london.
The only FACT needed to dispel your faultering argument is that YOU spend alot more talking about Leeds than West Ham! Even though we are according to you the smaller club.
Let me guess your response?
'this doesnt address the facts/stats'
ive got 2 facts, both 100% correct
1. more Leeds blogs posted on here than West Ham
2. you are a complete idiot!
your life must be pretty sad mate. shut up about leeds, your just crying for attention
You have a very strange understanding of the word "facts" 0829, there are many more West Ham threads than Leeds threads, but the West Ham threads do not hit the News Now Leeds board. Check the history and do the sums! In case you can't count, I'll provide a break down for you:
So far in August: West Ham 2 Leeds 1
July:
West Ham 31
Leeds 20 (Because of the take over speculation)
June
West Ham 49
Leeds 22
Facts, they're a bitch aren't they?
That article sounds like something my seven year old writes at school! Don't give up your day job (or are you still at school bless)! Ha ha ha ha ha ha thick cockney twat!
LOL YOUR FANS WERE BOOING WHEN YOU DREW LAST SEASON!!!!!! awesome fan base mate you only sing when ure winning springs to mind !!!!
AND IF WESTHAM ARE BIGGER THEN LEEDS WHY KEEP TALKING ABOUT US JUST TO GET HITS ON URE BLOG U FAG !!!!!!
Of course we were booing. Drawing with little Special Leeds? Humiliating!!!!!! ; } (I jest!!!)
Parachute payments u spunk breath !
Fcuking meet up cnut . and u will end up in a wheelchair ......twat face.
You proceed to write about Leeds United all the time! You have a very narrow personal view, fellow leeds fans have corrected you on your so called "facts" that is only your personal opinion!! (FACT) I hope you post this comment because i wouldlike to say....FOLLOW LEEDS FANS STOP COMMENTING ON THIS ONE ATTENTION SEEKING MISFIT lots of love HJ x
Fcuking incest victim i bet you are .
Are you Ken Bates?
No one is arguing that west ham has always been a bigger club than Leeds. The argument is that west ham is NOW a bigger club. Seems pretty undeniable to me.
Special needs would be about right, judging by the majority of responses
@hammersfan do you 'adopt' teams cos that is what you were as a kid, fuckin freak
How were Leeds meant to strengthen when we had huge debts... When we went down... You really are as deluded as they come... Yet again I find myself inviting your big brave self to go to a Leeds game at elland road and sit in the away end... See what a big club really is... Even better leave your home address here... Bellend
http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/AwayFollowing2011-12.gif
Total away support some 9000 more Leeds fans. Though really, who gives a shit. Bates out. In Warnock we trust.
The players will succeed in taking us into the playoffs, a couple of big signings will see auto promo.
Thanks for this Leeds blog.
to be honest mate we dont want or need you to follow our club. you have gone from wanting a civilised topic to insulting leeds fans. this is just jealousy accept it !!
joe leeds
Been said before but true to form you chose to ignore it 'cos that's the way ( a-ha a-ha ) you like it. It's a picture of the southe east corner now home to the away fans.
now you can reel out stats to prove your point 'cos that's what stats are for but don't turn all piers moron on us and start using dodgey pictures to substantiate your claims.
come to think of it, that's exactly what this blog reminds me of. tabloid jounalism gone bad. impossible to imagine I know but if they could get away with it they surely would. The Daily Heil does it's best with its faceless, nameless "Reporter" but even they can't get away with it like you.
lucky lucky you. compared with Piers Moron and the Mail in one comment. Just need to mention the latest cure for cancer, the extreme weather and start a "campagn to get us out of Europe" and you will be up there with holiest of holies - The Sexpress. Oh hang on, your clubs owners are one step ahead of me.
Keep living the dream anonymous blagger - tabloid muck.
And before you plan your usual retort. Idon't read your articles. You are hidden on my News Now. I pop to you site once a day on my terms and drop off my comments. - just like you anonymously
Well having read all the comments I reckon Leeds won. Ha
Amazingly ironic blog. Leeds fans overrunning a West Ham site. Microcosm for the footballing world?! ;)
So by your definition being in the premiership makes you a big club? Doesnt seem to make sense with the likes of fulham qpr wigan stoke in the prem? Are they big clubs or do they in fact just attract bigger audiences due to the thrill of a minnow pitting their wits against top flight opposition. In the vain hope there seaon will worthwhile wi with a shock .
Lordy Lordy these fans of little ol' Leeds have a huge chip on their shoulder don't they? As for history yes the only fans that didn't observe the minutes silence for George Best Imbeciles
Your seven year old writes Leeds baiting bull for retards at school? Strange school
Good night at UP that, harewood early doors then fat Cnut Rooney...
Suck my balls. Love from Eric Cantona
Leeds have lost support due to heavy tiket prices and bates the chelsea scumbag but I attend all awsy games and have for the last 26 years
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