The nature of some of the responses in the comments section of any article which mentions Tottenham is truly depressing. The dos Santos article was, perhaps, a little provocative, referring as it did to "expensive rubbish" but the fact is, it was a West Ham article asking whether we should bid for the guy. The history of West Ham signing players from Tottenham is not a happy one - we have picked up some 2 carat diamonds (Zamora and Etherington) but most have been 9 carrot vegetables rather than 9 carat jewels - so I say, steer clear!
Then in piled the morons. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy the banter and I enjoy the passion. Tottenham fans are welcome to post here and the rivalry inevitably leads to some barbed comments, but many of the comments are completely beyond the pail. Children might read this site so crudely graphic sexual references are completely unacceptable. The morons who posted those sick comments need to grow up.
However, my utter contempt is felt for those so called West Ham fans who seem to think it is funny to joke about the Final Solution. Get to Auschwitz you hideous retards. Stand in the the one gas chamber that remains and imagine crying mothers holding babies in their arms. Look at the pile of human hair, see the bins of shoes, every size right down to the tiny ballet shoes of a two year old. Look at the photographs of the victims, stare into their eyes and imagine. These "jokes" are truly obscene and have no place in our society. The comments are not funny, they are sick and anybody who thinks they are appropriate needs help. It is not just the Jewish victims you are insulting, it is every hero who fought against Hitler and the Nazis. That might include your parents or grandparents you fools.
Kick racism out of football? I would like to kick this mindless scum out of society. And before you say Tottenham fans call us Pikeys, yes they do, and yes that is stupid and childish, but it is not in the same league. If you can't see the difference, you must be morons.
West Ham as a club should be now take a stand. The hissing to simulate the Gas Chambers at White Hart Lane must stop. If I was the team captain, I would lead the players from the field if I heard it. CCTV should be used and the fans responsible banned for life.
I will finish by carrying a comment left by El Martillo which sums things up nicely. My final comment is that people should think a little about the bigger picture and to apologise to Tottenham fans for the moronic grunts of the animals who participate in this.
"The constant one-upmanship between Hammers and Spurs fans reminds me of two thirteen year old boys arguing about who has the bigger willie, whilst a mature woman watches with a smile that says "you've both got some growing to do before you get into my bed". The fact of the matter is that we are both in the second tier of premiership clubs.
Rivalry is an important ingredient in competitive sport, but the ability to feel hatred with the same passion as to feel love is perhaps a sad reflection on modern society. The inability of many of the posters to convey that passion without aggression, racism or crimes against the English language speaks volumes."
99 comments:
Not a bad article for a pikey. In all honesty if we take the rivalry out of the game part of it's soul goes to. Some comments go too far but I think our empowerment of being proud of being the Yid's has taken away most of the impact. That being said we do not like you although we do not see you as rivals as you do us. Make of that what you will.
As a Tottenham fan, I appreciate your comments. Sadly we have so called "fans" who have a similar attitude to life. This is a problem for society not just West Ham nor even football. I would like to think it was simply ignorance but suspect the malaise is far deeper.
Agree totally Hammersfan.
If you want to address the anti-semitism issue I suggest you start with the idiots at white hart lane who constantly refer to themselves as yids,not the people who react to it.
and why do spurs call themseleves yids? know your history before you post!...all in all i think this issue is being blown out of proportion.How many tottenham fans take offence to the yid/jew comments? i know i dont i just laugh! now whether this apology should be aimed at the jewish community instead of spurs fans im not sure, all i can say is ive never taken this sort of banter to seriously and neither has any spurs fan i know.
Great post. It's tough to see an end in sight. unfortunately each club has its fair share of retard fans, and its nice to see you addressing the issue from all angles.
2 points;
1 - very well written article from someone with a balanced perspective on how football fits in to society. it's about time people stood up and made some noise when the mindless idiots take things too far, because the truth is that it does follow into general society that people think these views and means of acting are acceptable. it's not.
2 - in response to the previous idiot; spurs fans refer to themselves as yids as a reactive gesture to put a positive slant on a negative jibe. no opposition fans have chanted 'yiddo' or 'yids' at us for at least 20 years now, because we have taken to positive out of it. we also recognise that as a club base in north london we have a strong jewish following and have a strong jewish representation on the board (as do the other lot from north london).
You're not wrong. These racists and retards are a society problem and it's not just confined to football let alone just West Ham and Tottenham. I enjoy the banter but never take it to the level of just mindless insults (or violence). With that in mind I'll continue to refer to you as Wet Spam and for the sake of childishness...my club is bigger than yours :p
Anonymous (08:11)...I am not sure if you know what you are talking about. FYI Spurs fan call themselves 'yids' as a deflection from Arsenal fans who reportedly first used it, intended as an insult. In a similar way that gays re-took the term 'queers'. It nullifies it's impact (get it?!?). Are you now calling Spurs fans anti-Semitic for using a phrase about themselves they did not invent? How does that work?
"The constant one-upmanship between Hammers and Spurs fans"
What one-upmanship, you are a small club full of pikey fans from East london who have never won any major trophies and we are a huge club with a worldwide following who attracts the biggest players from all over the world, and some of yours if they are good enough.
Lots of love
Bobby "NO" Moore
West Spam are only known because of there dickhead fans and even thats not much as they always get there arses kicked at the Lane
The term Yid, is and abbreviation of yiddish, a positive term a jewish / yiddish word. I am proud to be yiddish a yid. Like i am proud (most of the time anyway) to be British, a brit. If I stand and chant BRIT ARMY are the ignorant gonna try to paint me a racist because in certain parts of the world the locals say brit and spit?
Knobs! The last two posts.
I have to say I am surprised that Tottenham Fans rise to this.
There are 5 bigger clubs in London to worry about let alone the East London Pikey's
Tottenham fan here.
It;s a shame your fans seem to be full of so much hatred towards Tottenham.
Personally, I don't mind West Ham. Zola is a likeable chap and they try and play the game the right way. Tevezgate apart, they are not offensive, bar for a minority of midless fans, much like most clubs.
As I said, it;s a shame quite a lot of your fans have such contempt for Tottenham, and I fo one don;t really understand where it comes from.
Tottenham-Arsenal, easy to understand. Tottenham-Chelsea, easy to understand. West Ham-Chelsea, easy to understand as is West Ham-Millwall. These rivalries are age old and have a degree of genuine hatred between both sets of fans. Tottenham-West Ham to me is no different from Tottenham-Fulham or Tottenham-Charlton/Palace when they were both top flight.
Good article, unfortunately, there are as many bad Spurs fans posters, as there are West Hams ones (and any other club for that matter). As a Spurs fan, I enjoy the banter, but I always keep it friendly with ym fellow fans, after all, I love football as a whole. Maybe I just grew up ;-)
As a spurs fan who now lives in the manhester area, i have always hated arsenal , and chelsea and not really minded whu , they have alwys played footy the right way, but recently the hammers fans seemed to of got so bitter towards spurs, i know we are a bigger club, and you have your finacial problems,But is it just jealosy .
I read a recent poll asking fans throuout London which club the disliked the most and arsenal,chelsea and Whu all said spurs in fact so did fulham, why do u all dislike us so much
Nice article, i'm a spurs fan and I applaud you taking the stance you have done and distancing yourself from the minority.
Keep the rivalry and banter but get rid of this sick hissing stuff (that Chelski do as well to be fair)
Last time I was at Tottenham match I was pushed from behind by a cowardly Tottenham fan and verbally abused for about 2 minutes continuously as I left the club by a Tottenham fan, in front of a police officer who just smiled. I smiled too just two retards who know no better.
It is not something you can identify with one club but is a symptom of society.
I object to the coment about hissing to simulate gas chambers, you twits, that is such it’s a library in here because the home fans (like lots of clubs) or all sitting on their hands.
Nice
To 9:06 anonymous Spurs fan...Why do all londoners hate Spurs! "I know we are a bigger club"...So what! It's your unfounded arrogance...
As to the main point...I live in North London and hated Spurs long before I supported the Hammers, as all the biggest w*nkers at school followed them. At my synagogue, most kids supported Arsenal, but when I found out that most of our grandfathers grew up in the East End and supported the hammers(but where never allowed to go see them on Saturdays!!!), my choice was easy... To this day, there are as many Jewish Arsenal fans and a large number of Jewish West Ham fans (especially as there is still a large Jewish community in Ilford/Gants Hill)...To Tottscum, stop calling yourselves the Yids, as it's obvious the majority of you are not,,,as your just as jewish as all the other clubs run by jews, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, Villa,,,,but not Fulham.
Reply to spurs fan saying all London clubs dislike them the most, Dont forget palace fans we hate you to.You think you can just take our best players after we spend years getting them where they are.
Calm down you stupid spam, you dislike us because you no we have always been bigger and have on trophies over the years, and the real thing worrying the other london clubs is we are wealthy now and when our new stadium arrives and its packed to the rafters with the yid army. we will be the top boys in london again xxxxx
As a Spurs fan I think it's pretty well said. There will always be morons though...
Over the years the name West Ham has been synonymous with the word "Fuckwit". Not often do we hear the words West Ham said without a sneer or a knowing glance behind the person's back to a friend implying "Oh we've got another one here".
I don't dislike you as West Ham fans, I don't even dislike you as people. Hating you would be akin to hating a small disabled child for dribbling on your shoes. You just can't help but feel sorry for them.
Not specifice to this article but general observation about some modern fan from an old boy. Let me declare that I am a spurs fan. My comment is not intended to be partisan. It does involve Arsenal fans but only because that was the game I was watching when the thought struck me. In the recent FA Cup replay Chris Brunt, the Hull winger had turned the Arsenal full back inside out and left him dizzy having flicked the ball over his head 3 times. It was superb pce of skill but unfortunately the ball ran over the by line for a goal kick. When I was a kid that skill even from the opposition would be applauded by all fans. Not now. Brunt was subjected to abuse from 100s of Aresenal fans with accompanying hand movements. Which begs the question. If it's not to be entertained why pay £40 for the ticket? Am I missing the point?
i'm tottenham. so what if we're hated across london? it dont really matter does it? its all internet bollox anyway. any spurs fans that rise to this or say 'i dont understand why we're hated.....' needs to get a life and worry about something else. and its time to stop this 'big club/little club' obsession. i know half of it is done to get a rise out of whu fans but, to echo my earlier sentiment, who gives a f*ck?
As a (decent enough) Spurs fan, I applaud your stance, and of course share your disgust at such comments. Mind you, (with regards to the hissing) I think we've had it worse from Chelsea fans over recent years... it's strange, but Spurs - West Ham always strikes me as more of a local rivalry than us and ArseAnal... especially if you consider the demographic from where we draw much of our support from... our fans have nearly always hailed from East, NE London and Essex... and love us or loathe s, chances are you've got a couple of Spurs fans in your neighborhood... that is precisely why we should get along as best we could, and leave the football 'rivalry; as 'Banter' at best. ArseAnal's fans are fast becoming the Man U of the South, and probably there are as many goons living in Sussex as there are in Islington these days... anyway, I digress... hopefully, the Spurs-West Ham rivalry can remain... it;s one of the few 'true' things left in football... a dislike, but with a modecum of respect at each other's history and Club status,,, but certainly not a spiteful hatred that means such Holocaust references are seen as nothing more than a it-of-banter... it most certainly goes beyond that.
Good luck with the quest for European football this season, if it's not to be us, then I hope you get it, and do yourselves justice while you're out there!
Iknow that Spurs, Whu,and Fulham are all trying for the 7th spot, but who ever gets it could play an extra 19 games if they did well. Who really wants that burden for a cup that nowadays gets a bit of coverage on ITV4 and Channel 5 on a thursday night. How many injuries will you get.Maybe Spurs will have a big enough Squad but they lost interest this year.
To anan 9.48 spurs fan whos took the bait, you did dickhead nd im a spurs fan and proud . If other teams hate us means were doing ok.And where have all the morons gone who said we were going down. onwards and upwards, get used to it its here to stay
its good to see that not all of you spammers are racist bigots. I for one as a spurs fan will never like west ham but will always respect them as a club with a history, a loyal fanbase and as an excellent servant of the old east end.
One thing the last message forgot was and a great feeder club to the rest of us.Keep them kids coming you will need to, to survive.
Ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Nice article. There are idiots on both sides. It would be so much better for all of us if the banter was friendly rather than nasty. Good luck to the Hammers for the rest of the season. They have done brilliantly when you consider all those injuries. - Spurs fan
Good article and appreciated. A lot of my mates are Hammer fans and we enjoy a bit of banter but it never gets out of hand. I used to take my daughter to the lane to watch Spurs but stopped because of the abusive swearing... at our own players! I originally thought it was just a minority of idiots but it happened at every game by people all around me (In the family section). Needless to say I stopped taking her. I don't get it personally. 30 years ago we used to support our team, now we give abuse to players when they're having a bad game. I think most clubs have this problem, but I do think that generally spurs supporters are the biggest moaners who believe we should be winning the league every season, when in reality we're average.
By the way.. I do hate Arsenhole and I happily call myself a Yid. I expect I'll get a lot of abuse from idiots now but that's why I keep my distance from football these days and go and watch the rugby instead!!
On a factual point, over Half a million Gypsies were put to death in the concentration camps by the Nazis. They are the forgotten victims of the 20th Century's most appalling crime.
anti semetism is really born from ignorance and denial that our fellow human beings could be so evil,to murder a million and 300 thousand men women and children in the gas chamber
football banter really is name calling and does not reflect a true reality of such atrocity so
should be taken in context
yidoe x
football rivalry is important for a sport but each generation and supporters who may not know the truth of the fascist nazi regime should absorb the image above and reflect on its reality.
good article
lest we forget
racial and political tones are getting alot of air time on this blog...its a little odd.
its not odd to discuss the truth of such things as pointed out here,,,what is odd is to pretend that it doesnt exist and hide as in modern times people are reluctant to think .....sport brings people together
This article was meant to point out to certain elements of WestHam supporters that anit-semetism has no place in football and to apollogise to those spurs fans that the comments have offended and what does it attract? More abuse from idiot spuds fans aimed at someone who was actually defending them.
Kind of sums spurs up as a club doesnt it. Moron fans who feel they have license to abuse anyone they want, be it the disgusting chants aimed at Sol or posters on here insulting me because I am Catholic and Irish. There were numerous posts making fun of the cruxifiction or indeed the Irish Famine and did I get a single post in apology? No of course not.
Thats my problem with this whole anti-semetism debate. Was what happened the Jews during the second world war truely horrible, yes it was, it was appalling but it was 60years ago. How long can they continue to beat the rest of the world over the head with it.
For starters no-one but the Nazi's are responsible for it yet every non Jewish person is held to account.
Half the population of Ireland died during the famine or were forced to emmigrate on coffin ships where hundreds of thousands more died. Do I hold English people responsible for this? No! Quite simply there is no one alive today who had a damn thing to do with it. When some idiot spuds fan trots out another "Paddy" joke do I claim they are insulting the deaths of millions of Irish people? No I dont.
I am sick of spuds fans using anti-semetism as a blanket under which to hide their own racist comments. If you chose to insult someones religion then you cant cry foul when they respond likewise. Personally I never would but its because I wont stoop to that level, I am better than that. I am sure that their are decent spurs fans but I havnt found one yet. The very failure of their own fans to take those to task who provoke these comments from opposition fans shows the double-standards that are endemic in your club.
I have been to Lebanon and to Israel and I have seen the devestation that the Israelis have wrought on other countries and nationalities in the "defense" of the Jewish people and this always goes hand in hand with reference to the Holocaust. The guilt we have all been made feel for something that happened 60years ago and that none of us had anything to do with quietens the voices of concern for their actions. Until those in the Jewish communtiy take to task their own memebers who abuse the anti-semetic defence then they will get precious little sympathy from me.
It is a measure of the stupidity of those who abuse others and then play the racism card that they fail to realise that they are cheapening the memory of the Holocaust and are making people apathetic to genuine anti-semetism. It takes the stupidity and short sightedness of spuds fans to so trivialise something of the magnitude of the Holocaust to disguise their own vile racism.
The Holocaust is over, move on, stop using it to justify any actions that you deem warranted. Go and sit with a Palestinian mother in the rubble of the house where her children died from an Israeli air strike and tell her that something that happened more than half a century ago half a world away makes it ok for you to kill her children. It sickening the way Israelis justify their own genocide of Palestinians.
I am sure that half the moron spuds fans who cause this anti-semetic response from other fans are not even Jewish but such is their idiocy they can not see the damage they are doing to their own argument.
Wait for the "we are a big club " bleating to start! Que "we are going to break into the top 4" blind chanting, face it you are a vile disgusting, jumped up mid table team who are justifably loathed by other fans. Not because they are jealous of your tin pot club, or your team of money hungry mercenaries, or your laughable yearly claims of "this is the season we break the top 4", its because for all your claims of being on the recieving end of racist abuse you are the most biggoted, most moronic, stupid, dispicable fans in football.
Well said!
Celtichammer is definately a faggot
Cathoilic and a West Spam fan, how many kids has he shagged?
I find it very uplifting to read so many positive responses, for a change outnumbering those from the "fresh air between the ears brigade". Football possibly touches more people's lives, to one extent or another, than any other aspect of society. Your MP, your doctor, your kid's teacher, your neighbour, your dustman; probably all of them have an affiliation to one team or another. As we go about our daily business we don't feel the need to be abusive to each other, so why should we when we express support for our team? Banter? Sure, bring it on, I don't mind being called a pikey if it is done with wit and a smile on the face; but when words are spoken with venom and hatred it leaves me cold.
They call football the beautiful game, and it is; beautiful in its simplicity, the one central tenet, to outlaw the use of man's most utilitarian facet, his hands. You need nothing but a ball and a couple of jumpers to play it and if you haven't got a ball you can roll up the jumpers. Beautiful simplicity! But the game was hijacked in the sixties by the thugs grafting their simple mindedness onto the simple game and sadly the game is still the repository of a good deal of the scum in society. The more people who take the time to express their disgust with the filthy racist, homophobic and violent abuse that haunts the game, the healthier the game and society will be.
It is nearly thirty years ago now that I was stood on a tube train whilst a couple of skinheads scrawled grafiti with a felt pen on the walls of the carriage. I watched a while as people looked the other way, and then walked down and grabbed the pen from them and told them what I thought of their behaviour. As the train drew into the next station the passengers burst into spontaneous applause as the two lads ran off the train. Angry young man that I was at the time, I turned round and said "well why didn't any of you do anything?", and stormed off the train. That torpidity has sadly only increased since then and society is all the worse for it.
Spurs and West Ham both have a reputation for playing football with a smile on their face and the healthy comments posted by fans from both teams has put a smile on my face today....thankyou.
Was the Holocaust a terrible stain on human history? Yes
Was it any worse than the Purges carried out by Stalin in which millions died? Or the million Chinese killed by Mao during the cultural revolution? Or more recently the butchering of 10% of the population of Rwanda? Or the killing fields of Cambodia under Pol Pot? Or ethnic cleansing in the Balkans? Or the genocide against the Kurds in Iraq? Or the "disappeared" of central and south american dictatorships?
Our history is sadly littered with these massacres but why is it only The Holocaust that is used to justify the percecution of other peoples.
I think celtichammer is a prick who should be crucified for supporting two shit football teams
anon 12.11 brave boy aint u? thanks for proving my point that all spuds fans are morons.
anon 12.18 I wonder why i bother calling spuds fans idiots when you do a much better job of proving it. Celtic in my name has nothing to do with the glasgow football team. It is to do with the Celtic Nation, a reference to Ireland. You twat
celtichammer....i have read many of your posts on here....you seem quite an articulate lad, although i dont agree with what you say alot of the time (particularly with finance! but lets not start that again)..i cant help but fail to see where you absolute hatred of spurs stems from...ok so we proclaim we are much bigger than you, start ranting about out trophy haul vs yours, all our money, blah blah blah....big deal, its football, its banter....but the hatred you posess is only affecting you...you need to chill dude and let it go, 2 mins after people log off they have forgotten...where as the hatred you have stays with you, so who is the winner or loser! it only ill effects you.
12.27 you are a mug. you lack any wit or skill, so you roll out your lame come backs, its embarressing. and im a spurs fan.
REPLY TO celtic hammer,
What a knob you are!! If you propose to be celtic then how about all of the innocent people murdered in the seventies and eighties by putting bombs in rubbish bins in shopping centers and blowing people away in canary wharf, the Birmingham pub bombings (and I was there that night when it all want off and was just lucky) so dont mouth off and give out shit about stuff you obviously know fuck all about.Its pretencious Knobs like you that start shit COCK HEAD>
coys.
12.36....."What a knob you are!! If you propose to be celtic then how about all of the innocent people murdered in the seventies and eighties by putting bombs in rubbish bins in shopping centers and blowing people away in canary wharf, the Birmingham pub bombings (and I was there that night when it all want off and was just lucky) so dont mouth off and give out shit about stuff you obviously know fuck all about".....what about the rape. pillage and murder of irish people for 800 years under british rule?....i think its you who knows fuck all.
Reply to anon 12.36
I AM A CELT BORN AND BRED, MY FATHER DID NOT SPEAK ENGLISH UNTIL HE WAS 15 YRS OLD SO WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS. FUCKING NONE I EXPECT, CAN YOU EVEN SPEAK IN YOUR NATIVE TONGUE, I KNOW THAT YOU CANNOT .......WE KNOW THAT IT IS YOU THAT KNOWS FUCK ALL AND DOES NOT HAVE THE INTERLECT TO LEARN IT.
No paddies can speak anything until they are about 15. That is because they are all thick, inbred fuckwits.
Just like spammers, HI RISE/ caravan inbred stinking knobs.
coys
You spammer twats need to make an apology to the Premeiership. The fact that you're just a championship team at best and yet try and claim to be a big club. Even MK Don's are bigger than you clowns
I'm a Spurs fan. I've always had a soft spot for Hammers fans who are amongst the most knowledgeable and pragmatic in the country. Good article, shame about the ensuing bullcrap from both parties.
WOW.! Yiddos really are upset by us being above 'em in the league. Little club, blah, blah, blah - how do you feel being below such a tiny club.? As for "pikeys", have you had a look around at the ground - never seen such a bunch of inbred divs.?
As a West Ham fan I've never understood the way Tottenham fans have such disdain for my team and its supporters as I have always admired Spurs for the way they play the game. They claim not to care about West Ham as we are an irrelevent 'feeder' club, but if this were so then why do they constantly have to reitterate this point? It's a fact that Spurs are a bigger club than West Ham and have underachieved recently (particularly considering how much money they have spent over the years). West Ham however are currently going through a great period in their history where we are bulding towards a secure future by harbouring some fantastic talent at the same time as playing some of the most attractive football in the league. Granted some of those players will leave in the future but I will always be proud that it was West Ham who started great players such as James Tomkins and Jack Collison's careers who will go onto have similar success to Cole, Carrick and Lampard etc, a feat that I don't believe Spurs can boast. I hope that either West Ham or Spurs finish seventh this season so that I can support one of my local clubs in the Europa League. Come on you Irons!
Its just too stupid and childish its unbelievable. Must be 14 15 yr old kids write all the garbage. Im a Spurs and talking about the holocaust and hitler has nothing to do with Tottenham Hotspur FC in North London. Why all the talk? its grim.
As this post is more political than football related let me throw my tuppance worth in. Racism (or call it anti-semitism if you will) I don't support, the holocaust like slavery was disgusting...
All this said, I'm extremely surprised to now see Isreal ethnic cleansing the arab palestinians - bombing them, bulldozing their houses down, letting them live without electricity, clean sewage, food etc, and half the palestinian nation living in what could loosely be described as concentration camps.... Yes we know they have not helped the national security and have resisted the Jewish occupation, but it goes to show how a nation treated appallingly put in the same position of power shows no greater dignity for human life.....
i see on SSN that west ham are being taken over by the broke icelandic banks because their broke chairman cant meet his debts...its all looking so rosy for wet spam lol
Come on guy's why can't we all get on at least for once in a while?.As a Spurs fan for many years I have never had any particular dislike for West HaM at all,to all intents and purposes a fine football club,however it does seem that most of this rivalry is perpetuated by Hammers fans,maybe it's becuase they don't have a rival as the Lions aren't doing too well these day's!!.However it's unnecessary to keep mentioning this jewish thing,if it rankles you,as it obviously does, why keep bringing it up all the time?.
CelticHammer... I am a Spurs fan and I agree with your post at 11.52am. Unfortunately I don't understand why Spurs attracts such idiot moronic supporters. Unfortunately Spurs is in my blood, if I was to walk away from Spurs I'd walk away from football. it's a shame that a decent article has been hijacked by twats...
COYS
it seems the main point about the strong feelings here is genocide repeats itself with different cultures at different times,
the holocaust cannot be swept away
and should not be......
anyway id like to say as as a spurs fan,there are always idiots at all clubs who seem to carry on rediculous banter which doesnt really do anything but make those people appear as infantile.....
also i think a sense of humour is vital to act as block ....
14.34 - To be fair if the palestinians stopped firing rockets into israel killing innocent civilians I'm sure that the israelis would stop bombing palestine. It's a complicated situation and one which cannot be resolved on this forum. The main issue is not the palestinians or even the israelis, but the other surrounding arab nations, who recruit terrorists to fight in Palestine using the civilians as a smokescreen. Try investigating the situation before you start making brash statements about something you clearly don't understand. I suppose you believe that Israel shouldn't defend itself from these attacks, maybe every time a rocket is sent into an israeli settlement they should send a bunch of flowers to the arab terrorists thanking them. It is a volatile region and we wouldn't even begin to understand what it must be like for the people living there. Even the Iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad Most notoriously described Israel as a "fake regime" that "must be wiped off the map."
And NO I'm not Jewish... I just don't believe everything I read in The Sun!!
COYS
It appears to me that half of the posters on here cannot read. The headline on this blog begins with "A Call For Decency .....". Any danger that we might see a little of this precious commodity sometime soon? Some of what has been posted here is anything but.
anon 16.00 how many Israelis were killed by rocket fire and how many hundreds of Palestinains civilians were kiiled in airstrikes by the Israelis?
Seems after reading through the comments on here there are many more Bitter twisted Spud fans out there then bad Hammers fans. ;-)
If they want to be known as yids so be it! on the other hand we are NOT pikeys and we do NOT call ourselves as such, we are West Ham and our main rivals are and will always be Millwall, the Spuds to me and many others are just a no mark team who we couldn't give a shit about!!
You lot and Twitchy suit each other!!!
ANON 14.34 - you obviously DO read the sun and all the other brainwashing press and TV news, as you are trying avert the guilt of the Isreali jews and blame the palestinians - When these jewish people go bulldozing down houses in their settlements (where they have lived for generations) is that the palestinians fault? You're probably not too aware of this ongoing practice as it isn't reported in the news.... I wonder why? Would you blame your own family for firing rockets at an occupation country that bulldozed your house and put you in a refuge camp? What if the Germans won the war and did it to your family, would you think it wrong to retaliate?
Great article, I'm a Spurs fan, and I'm delighted to see that most West Ham fans aren't mindless thugs and idiots, and that they are just fans trying to enjoy the beautiful game like we all do.
Thanks to all who have responded positively, it goes a long way to restoring faith. However, we have still had a few morons. Surely the worst posted at 0825, under anonymous protection of course, "Why are all the jewish people in the picture so skinny???? They all need to eat a nice bacon sandwich and fatten up a bit." How infantile and how obscene. I thought twice before posting the picture - they are human beings, dads, mums, brothers, sisters, children and I did not wish to demean them in any way. Tell me, how can anybody be sick enough to make a racist joke based on that picture? What a complete arse!
To all the positive posters, thanks again! We can maintain the rivalry but hopefully understand that, when all is said and done, football is just a game. A very important game, a game that makes me rage and boil when West Ham lose (which doesn't happen often these days!) but a game nevertheless!
This is going to hurt but what will happen if spurs take west spams euro spot it could kill them of finacial meltown.Hope we dont i would like to finish 7 th by merit well said there is now place for brainless morons .
can we please have celtichammers view on todays news! BG is 301 mil in debt, and a virtually broke bank is taking over west ham
As a West Ham fan I have to say I've never read so much bullshit in a long time.
As has been said many times the spuds refer to themselves as the yids. Why is it if a West Ham/gooner/chelski fan calls them a yid its seen as racist ffs?
Spuds fans often chant homosexual abuse at Sol Campbell and accuse Wenger of being a paedo so they cant complain when abuse comes their way. If they cant take it they shouldnt give it out. Even though I despise the yids, especially their fans, I thought the whole Sol Campbell thing was utterly ridiculous. What a load of bullshit!
What next? No swearing at football grounds? These songs have been sang at UP for years and years but its just BANTER. Im sure it hasnt turned anybody into raving Nazi Jew Killers.
The discussion has been sidetracked somewhat and CelticHammer is largely responsible for that. As regular visitors will know, Celtic is a poster of main articles on here but, as you will see if you visit regularly, there is no orthodoxy here, and on this point I take issue with CelticH.
The point about the Holocaust is that we, the British, must share some of the blame. We sought appeasement with Hitler and did nothing when the persecution commenced. Eichmann (responsible for the logistics of the "Jewish problem") wrote two letters to the British government in 1938, virtually begging us to take the Jews from German occupied territories. We were responsible for Palestine at the time, the "homeland" of the Jews. Our government twice declined the request, even though it was becoming increasingly obvious what was going to happen - concentration camps had already been set up. (The Americans were also asked by Eichmann to take the Jews. Having been to Arizona, I can testify that the New Jerusalem could easily have been accommodated as the Jewish version of the Mormon's Salt Lake City.) What-is-more, Bomber Harris, a self confessed anti-Semite, refused to bomb both the railway line taking Jews to Auschwitz and the gas chambers, claiming it was not worth risking British airmen's lives to do so. You can bet your life that the average Lancaster bomber pilot and his crew would have considered the risk worthwhile!
Moving on to the question of Israel, the West Bank and Gazza only exist as a way of preventing Israel from voting itself out of existence. With the Arab population breeding at a much faster rate that the Jewish population, Israel faced the prospect of there being more voting Arabs than voting Jews in Israel by 2010. At that point, Israel could be voted out of existence by the majority Arab population. The solution was to create two satellite states, disenfranchising a massive chunk of the Arab population in the process. This was a cynical piece of Real Politik by the Isrealis akin to the policies of the old apartheid South African government.
I have been to Israel and can vouch for the appalling way that the Palestinians are treated. Israel only exists because of the guilt we, Britain, rightfully feel for failing the Jews in 1938. But Israel is an artificial state, shoe-horned into the Middle East on territory which rightfully belongs to Palestine. Go to Yad Vashem, the museum to the Holocaust in Jerusalem and you will see how the Israelis use the events of 1939-45 as propaganda in the most foul way. I met a survivor from Auschwitz in a small museum in the temple of David and he voiced his disgust at the way Israelis were using the Holocaust for political capital and as a justification for illegal actions in the Golan Heights and Lebanon (the hot potatoes at the time I was there).
Read "From Beirut to Jerusalem" if you want to understand the Israeli attitude. It is written by a Jewish American who was reporting in Beirut for the Washington Post during the Civil War, then moved to the post of correspondent in Jerusalem. He was appalled by the attitude of Israelis and concluded that, although Jewish by faith, they had adopted the morality of the Arabs when it came to government and politics.
This is a big, big, big issue. There is no absolute right or wrong. Hamas are a brutal bunch of murderous terrorists but they are also freedom fighters. Nelson Mandela is a hero now but the ANC were a terrorist organisation too. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter of course. I can't condemn Isreal because they are encircled by enemies. It is a tiny country that will only survive for as long as it makes clear to its neighbours that it will retaliate with disproportionate force if it comes under attack. When Israel claims to be a democracy, it is bending the truth - enfranchise the Arabs in the West Bank and Gazza and Israel will cease to exist. How ironic that we are fighting "for democracy" in Iraq and Afghanistan but we turn a blind eye to the undemocratic actions of our ally, Israel. But that is down to our own guilty conscience because of what happened in Germany in the 1930s and 40s. The Holocaust is not history Celtic, it is the reason why the World is still engaged in conflict. And if there ever is another world war, it will be triggered because of Israel!
triggered because of israel?...if there is another world war, or nuclear weapons ever deployed it will be because iran will develop a nuclear warhead (which they are trying to do at the moment)and israel will take premptive action. make absolutely no mistake, iran would happily start a nuclear war if they beleive they will be responsible for the destruction of israel
Hammersfan, there really isnt that much difference between what I am saying and you are saying. The main point being that I believe that the world needs to move on from the Holocaust.
As I pointed out there have been countless genocides and attrocities since then which recieve less than a fraction of the attention that the Holocaust does.
As for Britain failing the Jews, sorry mate but Britain was a damn site more culpable in the death and forced emmigration of 2million Irish people and I dont see you grovelling and scraping to turn a blind eye to the enslavement and subjigation of an entire people. I am not trying to sound bitter believe me I bear no animosity to any British person for the Famine or any of the other acts carried out during British rule.
Likewise I loathe and am ashamed by the actions carried out in the name of Irish people by thugs like the IRA or other so called "Irish" paramilitary groups. They are no more than common murderers and should be treated as such.
The real irony of the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians is that they are enslaving one of the most moderate Islamic cultures in the world. In fact it is this attitude that the Israeli's have a of tarring all Islamic cultures with the same brush that has allowed the Al Sauds to finance the spread of radical, extremist Islam.
Prior to the death of President Nassar of Egypt the Al Sauds would never have dared to push their brand of Islam on to other countries. For me the most striking image of Islam in the last 50yrs is the footage of millions of people who lined the streets of Cairo for his funeral, look closely and see can you spot one woman dressed in a burkah, or even with her head covered.
David Ignatius who has written extensively on the middle east and what drives American foreign policy in the region has always maintained that Israel spurned a chance to reach an accord with Egypt under Nassers reign and that his subsequent conflicts with Israel were geographical and political rather than ideological and religous.
Ignatius is an outspoken supporter of Israel yet he has pointed out that such is the level of zealousy and paranoia that prevails in Israeli society that every arab is seen as a terrorist and any action is considered permissible in defence of Israel.
I have spoked before about having been to Lebanon and it is a truely beautiful country with the most welcoming and friendly people you could wish to meet but again Israel chose to terrorise and destroy it rather than foster a relationship with it.
My problem with this whole thing is the blatant double standards that are applied from the top echelon of the Israeli government right down to your average idiot spurs fan. I can not stand hipocrisy and I will not allow myself to be lecured by anyone who engages in it. That is not a swipe at you, but those who hurl racist and religous abuse and then hide behind the "anti-semit" card when someone responds.
Look at the posts on this page referring to Catholics, they are dispicable, I dont want them taken down, I want them left where they are to remind everyone of the bigotry of spurs fans. The same can be said for the anti Irish remarks. Funny though how I not only never recieved an article of my own critising those views but not even so much as an apology from spurs fans for the behaviour or their spuds pals.
You might say that those who do not study the past are doomed to repeat it, I say those who focus too much on the past will find the means to repeat it.
Wow Celtic, I am looking forward to that beer! We had better book a weekend, the debate is going to take a good 48 hours! Needless to say, hopefully, this is from the position of somebody who admires your passion and intelligence - but I think you are wrong on a number of counts.
Firstly, let's now kick Tottenham into touch. You have got to get over this obsession mate. To weave them into the debate on the Middle East is really suggesting that you are over obsessing. Tottenham and Tottenham fans have NOTHING to do with the Middle East conflict! Now, on to the juicy stuff!
Israel were not responsible for the Civil War in Beirut. Yes, their actions, once they had moved in, were hideous but Christians, Muslims and Druze tore the country apart before Israel chipped in. Their involvement, initially, was justified - if you have a lawless district on your doorstep, you try to impose law and order. However, to allow the Christian militia into the Palestinian refugee camp to perform ethnic cleansing was disgraceful. To then elect the man responsible, Sharon, President of Israel was despicable.
To compare the Famine to the Final Solution does you no credit at all. The Final Solution was a deliberate, orchestrated, planned act of genocide; the Famine was a natural event and an illustration of governmental incompetence at national and regional level. The repeal of the Corn Laws would have done nothing to relieve the situation, that was a little English argument which exploited the Famine to win support for a political faction. Nobody WANTED the Famine to happen, nobody planned for it, nobody deliberately murdered people, the deaths were down to incompetence and bad planning - by becoming a "one crop" economy, the Irish were the involuntary victims - no absentee land owner wanted the crop to fail as his profits would suffer.
That is what makes the Final Solution unique. Stalin's atrocities were piecemeal and reactive, Mao's were not focused on ethnicity but economic goals and political "imperatives", Rwanda was 100 days of obscene violence, a spasm in comparison to the extended genocide in Germany, Ireland was a cock up and Cromwell belongs to a different age, an age when brutality was an accepted tactic of government. The other thing you also seem to fail to appreciate is that the Holocaust was the culmination of nearly 2000 years of antisemitism. Mark's Gospel is an act of propaganda and wrongly blames the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ - that fictional line, "Let the blood be on our heads" has been the excuse for the persecution of Jews ever since. That line can be turned on its head. Christians have taken a leading role in the persecution of Jews for 1000 years - we modeled the antisemitism, grew it, fostered it, fed it through generations - Hitler simply unwrapped the parcel when the music stopped. "Let the blood be on our heads" - we share responsibility and you cannot wipe out 2000 years in the space of 65 years. The stain is more ingrained than that!
Re: original article. Well said Hammersfan.
Re: WHU being banned from Europa Cup. I for one would prefer to qualify by finishing 7th and not by some piece of UEFA law.
Hammersfan through every year of the famine records show that the British government exported food crops from Ireland to the UK knowing that millions of Irish were starving to death. Over the course of British rule in Ireland a 700year more Irish died as a result of the actions of British rulers than died in the Holocaust.
The Holocaust was not the culmination of 2000years of anti semetism but rather the demented ravings of one man.
Persecution of one race by another is a hallmark of human history from the way the Aztec and Incas sacrificed weaker races to their gods, to how they were then massacred by the Spanish. Indeginous people in australia, new zealand and the americas were driven from their land and persecuted by invading Europeans. Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler killed Jews. In Rwanda 10% of the population was killed in 6months, think of that in the terms of the UK? 5million murdered in 6months! The horror of the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans went on in the full glare of the media.
Even today these atrocities still happen, from the Kurdish population in Iraq, Iran and Turkey, to gypsies in Romania (remember Hitler killed 600,000 of them but where is their meuseum) to recent slaughters in Hati.
Why are all of these less important than what happened to the Jews and why is only the Holocaust used to jsutify the subjigation and persecution of another race. The Holocaust does not justify the death of a single innocent civilian and those who carry out those killings (even in the guise of military action) are no better than the gaurds who rounded up Jews and sent them to the gas chambers.
wtf has spurs and west ham got to do with genocide and bombs in israel/palestine. Its outrageous. Grow up girls ffs!!! Spurs 1 West ham 0, west ham 0 spurs 2. 6 points. thank you
To the last poster, slope off and exercise your wrist!
To Celtic, of course the Holocaust was a culmination of 2000 years of history. Jews were banned from England in the C13th and that ban was only lifted by Cromwell. Jews were blamed for the plague and literature, from Shakespeare, through Shelly to Dickens vilified them. They were forced into money lending by the refusal of gentiles to buy food or clothing touched by unclean Jews and because of the outlawing of usury by the Christian and Muslim faiths. The fact that they were stateless and forced to live in ghettos resulted in an insular approach which set them up as "different" and natural victims. Over 2000 Jews were burnt alive in Geneva for causing and spreading the plague; there is a small jump from that to the policies of Hitler. From the moment that Mark wrote his Gospel, the Holocaust became predictable. In Shylock's words, "If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his sufferance? Revenge." If you murder the Messiah, the revenge is going to go hard!
Celtichammer and hammersfan have serious deep rooted issues.
You are absolutely right. Banter and rivalry help make Saturday afternoon complete, but there is a line that should not be crossed. I'm not sure whether these taunts bother Spurs fans too much - most of them aren't even Jewish - but it sure as hell doesn't send a good message to Jewish people in general. Well done for speaking out.
If nothing else this thread has been interesting. My grandfather was Jewish, I simpathise with the Palastinians and the Kurds and support the jewish claim to a homeland but cannot accept Isreal's foreign policy. Of course the answer to the 'Jewish problem' isn't a simple one.
It is a shame that as football fans we cannot publicly appreciate the talents expressed by an apponent, applaud the victors for entertaining us if they are not our team, football is partisan, our stadiums are the only place we can safely (on the whole) express our aggression.- Aggression bourne form the pressures of modern living and over zealous Political correctness.
Of course we may all experience sneers from other fans when wearing our colours in public but physical aggression is generally restricted to organised 'events' involving consenting participants.
There is a thin line between verbal and physical aggreession at a football match and it is easy to see how it can quickly get out of hand.
Of course there is no place in society even football for using race, creed or religion as a basis of insult. I cant even bring myself to sing about Arse and W@nker being a peado as I feel that it is grossly offensive. As for the Sol Campbell song, it is not racist, but there are references to homophobia, I dont find it offensive but then I'm not Sol or homosexual. However I found the chant' does your boyfriend know your here?' to Brighton fans very amusing.
I am not homophobic, racist or a religious biggot, My grandmother was Irish and Catholic, it doesnt give me a right to abuse either demographic but nor does it prevent me from finding amusement in jokes.
The reality is that football is becomiing more about the fans than the game and it has to be manage before it escalates much further. I know its wrong but the older I get and the more imerssed in football I beome the greater my pathalogical hatred for Man , Arscum and Chelski becomes, I cant even walk past one of their shirts in a sports wear shop without feeling tainted, as for WHU, I actually like your club, you try to play football the right way and you su8ffer as do Spurs from the perenial problem of inconsitancy and under acheivement. I am not being arrogant, Spurs are a big club, however you measure it and they are also a London club and one of the wealthiest in the country so we should be challenging at the highest level.
As for next season, maybe Europe, maybe top 4 but we will have to off load J'anus first, any takers WHU? Sorry there I go slagging our own players! Yes we do slag them and possibly more than other clubs but given their astronomical rewards/ High ticket prices/ lack lustre performance, surely we have a right to indicate our opinion, after all if nothing else the beautiful game is all about opinion, isnt it?
Thanks for the contributions of the last two posters. Bot 0022, that excuse of "pressure" in the modern world as an excuse feels a little lame. What about the pressure of the Depression? Or the pressure of being bombed in your homes? Or the pressure of millions dying in the trenches? Or the pressure of working down coal mines? We really have never had it so easy so we have no excuse at all.
celticfan and hammersfan although i have enjoyed your little debate to a degree being a lover pf history myself. I think you both need to go on that weekend break together somewhere nice. Bring all your textbooks and frames of reference and have a jolly old time. To be honest the initial sentiment of Hammers article was to be admired. But now it would appear that you are just having your own attempeted and very public my willy/knowledge is bigger/better than yours. Well done for reading both of you but it now looks like you are posting on the wrong forum. Unfortunately i believe that you may well be having the reverse effect that you planned hammersfan. By so vehemently debating the use of non football issues you give them to some degree validation. Not by those that read your full posts but by those that choose to pick and choose the statements and venom in which they are put forward. Well thats my pre work take, so make of it what you will.
Hope you had a good day at work 0859!
Average at best if i'm honest cheers son.
As a Spurs fan I have always liked West Ham and all my West Ham mates always have liked Spurs because for many years we were both the only decent footballing teams around. Living in Hackney many of my firends were hammers and we used to go to Upton Park & White Hart Lane week in week out, Of course the banter was good and proper and still is and whenever I have met hammers fans talking about football we come from the same view-football first and we like the way we both play the game. SO I dont care what any Spurs or West Ham fans think, we are rivals not enemies..unlike some other teams in London!
Well said 0014. My best mate is a Cockyfool.
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