Tell me, why wasn't Vidic booked for the penalty? Never mind the argument over whether or not he should have seen red over the rugby tackle on Ba - and he should have done - had he seen yellow for a deliberate and wilful trip on the edge of the box, after Cole had turned him inside out, the debate over red or yellow for the second foul would have been academic.
But Mason got distracted. The second penalty was a clear and deliberate trip that if committed anywhere else on the pitch would have bought yellow. But Vidic argued and Mason forgot his cards. Penalty is punishment enough, he wrongly thought, completely forgetting the context of the game over all. Had the yellow been produced at that point, as it should have been, then Vidic would have walked for the rugby tackle. Bugger me, he should have walked anyway!
But that wasn't enough. Mason had awarded West Ham two penalties - rightly in both cases - so still owed Fergie a favour at half time. Picture the scene. Fergie arrives downstairs, red faced and furious. He points a finger at Mason and yells, "What the fcuk do you think you are doing? Is your name Atkinson? Do you want to referee in this division next season?" And Mason wilted. His knees trembled. He fell to the floor and begged forgiveness. "I'm sorry Sir Alex. I am unworthy Sir Alex. I will make amends Sir Alex."
And didn't he just? The Man Utd penalty was a disgrace. Yes it hit Upson's arm but Upson was five feet maximum away from the ball when it was struck and had no chance of getting his arm, which was by his side, out of the way. The decision was absurd, disgraceful, appalling, bent - call it what you will. I don't care what happened afterwards, we were robbed. There's no way that United, down to ten men, and without that penalty award would have won that game. And if we end up going down and United end up with the title, Mason should be made Man Utd's player of the season!
What can I say about the game? We were crap but we led 2-0 at half time. They were penalties, nailed on, and Noble took them brilliantly. But apart from that, what did we offer all game? Hitz missed a reasonable chance because he took it on the volley and...well Ba had a long range shot. The two penalties came straight from the Bolton long ball text ball and in terms of creativity, we offered nothing.
Second half, the Noble foul for the first goal was stupid and Green's positioning for the free kick was even worse. Rooney could only go one side and for Green to be beaten by a yard inside that post was disgraceful. The second Rooney goal was genius, nobody to blame there, except we had surrendered shape and were sitting too deep whilst being too stretched front to back by that point. The pen was a disgrace and Upson was unlucky for the fourth when it went through his legs, but da Costa was dozy. Like Defoe, Hernandez was utterly unmarked in the six yard box.
Did we deserve to win? No. Did we deserve to draw? No. Had Ferguson picked his first team from the start, would we have been murdered? Yes. Were we robbed by an incompetent referee? Unquestionably.
Player ratings: Green 5 (One save all game and positioning AWFUL for the free kick); Jacobsen 6, da Costa 6, Upson 7, Bridge 6; O'Neil 5, Parker 6, Noble 6 (Great penalties but what else?), Hitz 6; Ba 5, Cole 6. Subs: Piquionne 5, Keane & Obinna not on long enough to rate.
32 comments:
to be honest noble shouldnt be tackling like tha tthere but he did win the ball and it wasnt a free kick. Da costa was terrible and should be rated 5 and gree n6 as da costa was constantly skinned and drawn in to tackling unessiserily
Your post leaves out some very deserving criticism of Grant HF.
2-0 up at 60 minutes, Id say 95% of managers would bring on an extra man in midfield to combat United's extra pressure.
But Grant was clearly too frightened to change anything so all he did was fiddle about with the forwards, the players in fact who have the most left in the tank.
Mason was poor but Grant was much worse and he let our boys down.
I don't think he did get the ball mate.
Although I agree that we did not play great today, the truth is that we lost the game thanks to Avram Grant's incompetence as a manager.
Grant was totally out-foxed by Fergie despite the fact that he was not even coaching his team!
What did Grant expect to happen in the second half? I mean really! Ferguson took a chance that West Ham will sit back and try to defend the lead and he threw all his attacking aces in the game. That wouldn't have worked if Grant was a good manager and told his team to press to get the third goal.
We gave the field to United for 45 minutes! Our midfield was weak to non-existent and droping back all the time allowing MU repeated possessions and renewed attacks. Just the recepy for conceding a two goal lead against MU.
In the interview after the match Rooney and Giggs said that they knew that a third goal by West Ham would put the match beyond them. We did not even get a chance to score in the second half however because the "grant" manager we have asked the team to sit back and defend the lead against MU!
I think that this should answer any questions you may raise HF about how good a manager the Israeli is. I think Zola would probably have won this game in the second half.
Final point. We saw the good and the bad from Noble again today. His defending is tentative and the guy although has some charisma going forward he is a liability in his defensive duties.
I don't blame Grant for that call. I said at half time that we needed a third to win and he was looking for that third. United are a better team, a much better team. Would we have conceded four had United gone down to 10 men? No. Would we have lost had that penalty not been awarded? Maybe. Would we have won had a red card been shown to Vidic and that penalty not been awarded, unquestionably. How good a manager is Ollie? Very good apparantly but they were 2-0 up against United and lost. How good a manager is Hughton? Very good unquestionably, but they surrendered a two goal lead last weekend against Arsenal. Remember Spurs 3-0 up against United and losing 5-3, without the help of the referee? Remember AC Milan 3-0 up against Liverpool in a Champions League final? Had Grant gone on the defensive with his substitutions and lost , he would have been crucified. We were beaten by a better team and an incompetent referee. Put that combination together and even Clough and Jose would be buggered!
Da Costa was our best player Fred. The number of times he cleared was unbelievable.
When is Noble going to lose that habit of giving fouls in dangerous areas? Mindless.
Should have left Cole on. Man utd back 4 were all having problems with him. Piqu added nothing...in fact, he took away.
That game should have been wrapped up at 2-0 up. To give away 4 goals in that time...only us!
Simply, we found ourselves in a situation where we should have seen out the game. We didn't.
Doesnt seem as if Grant's ref rant worked.
Typical Stani, no mention of TWO outrageous decisions from the referee; why?
As for da Costa being our best player, where was he when Hernandez scored? Exactly the same as when Defoe did him at Tottenham and missed. What about teh Hernandez miss in the first minute of the second half? Ran across da Costa who was on his heels and dozy again. Yes he had a good first half, with one superb challenge in the six yard box - but he was poor in the second when it really mattered.
Errm, the ref's decisions were obvious HF. You mentioned them,others mentioned them. I thought I add to the debate, rather than sate the obvious. There are lots of things I havent mentioned. Doesnt mean a thing.
I didn't say it was Grant's fault either. No mention of that HF? Why?
Stop getting emotional. You are not here to try and prove me wrong all the time.
You're nitpicking. All our players made mistakes, but not all of our players played as well as he did. He was on the end of almost every ball. Look at his work in the air. One of those instances you mention, the calling was poor. Green, Upson or someone should be giving him a shout. Everyone was poor in the 2nd half.
Emotional, me? I was honestly close to tears when that penalty was given. Emotional? Yes I'm fcuking emotional, West Ham are MY TEAM!
Emotional here HF,against me. Not when watching the game. And paranoid too!
Me, paranoid? After supporting West ham for all these years? I know for a fact that the Islamic Brotherhood, the FA, the Knights Templars and the Masons have all sworn to see us relegated because of the Tevez affair.
Still don't get it why we were defending too deep. We played the game exactly as MU wanted us and nullified all the huge risks Ferguson had to take in order to try to turn the match around.
Moreover, our forwards were completely cut out from our midfield and therefore rendered themselves incapable of posing any threat to a very weakened MU defence in the second half.
I maintain that this is where you need good managers to show their skills (that is if they have any).
It does seem to me that we have picked a few points lately not because of Avram Grant but despite of him!
Yes, we were wronged and robbed by the referee and yes we were unlucky at times but the main reason we have not won today is because we got the tactics and the motivation wrong (particularly in the second half). And I do agree with Stani, that Carlton Cole's change was wrong. He was the right player to keep on the field because he could keep the ball and cause MU defence problems. Nevermind the players, Avram Grant's score today was below zero.
Hammers : 2-0
half time:
ManU : 0-4
is not real!
manU is the team-bussines
hammers are working class heroes!
visca el barça
up the hammers
death Madrid
up the Barça
greetings of Premià de Mar Catalonia!
We played the same way in the second half as in the first. The penalties were both from long balls as was the Vidic foul that should have resulted in a sending off. Were you complaining at half time? Nope. We played a better team in the second half, that's the difference. First minute, Hernandez nearly scored! What was the corner count first half and second half Sav? I think Man U had more in the first than in the second! You are simply being "wise" after the event. Mason cost us the game, not Grant.
I said at half time that the only way we would lose this game is if we defend too deep. The only way we could win this game was by going all out to score a third goal. As it turned out, Ferguson based everything on us not daring to go after them in the second half. And we obliged. And yes, I don't think we played that well in the first half and yes we were lucky to be 2-0 up. That doesn't change anything regarding how bad our manager handled the situation at half time and after!
You sum up a disappointing afternoon well BBC!
We were watching the game delayed as I was working this morning so all outside contact with the world was shut down when we started to view. From the start of the match I said to the lads that we looked leggy and we couldn’t seem to get going but to my delight we went 2 up with 2 well taken and deserved penalties. You are spot on with regard to Vidic should have been booked for the 2nd penalty but how did he stop on just before half time?
I couldn’t help myself and sneaked off to the computer to see what the final score was and my heart sank when I saw the score line. I suppose in a way it made the 2nd half a bit more bearable if you get my logic as if I hadn’t after 60 odd minutes I would have become very confident. We were outplayed but we were also undone with some very poor decisions especially given that we should have been playing against 10 men. It was never a penalty for them and I even wondered if Noble won the ball for their first but I have only seen it once.
Onwards and upwards but am I looking forward to attending the Reebok next Saturday? I have nothing but bad memories apart from my youngest leading out the team there last season. Be interesting to see if Grant makes any changes but he has to think about bringing my boy Tomkins back in, should have never been left out in the first place.
Same before and after half time. Corner count, 16-0 over the 90 minutes. Man Utd are a superior team. End of. What was the score under Zola in the equivalent fixture? And United didn't have a defence! But it's all Grant's fault. Nonsense.
You're right HF, what's the ref's name again? Mason?....I think you're on to something ...
Why did Man U look so much fitter, faster and harder than us.They were more skilful because they have better player's, their movement and passing was great and certainly helped by the amount of space we gave them, but they shouldn't really be any fitter, that is down to our bad management.
Agree with you HF.
In the first half we sat damn deep and we continued with that in the second half. We were lucky to be two nil up at half time. Of course our 2 pens were awarded correctly but ManU had plenty of good chances e.g. Park Ji-Sung's free shot. Noble's challenge that led to the 2-1 was just clumsy. Yes, he got the ball but he also got Carrick. The Manc's pen was a bad joke, just like the fact vidic came off the pitch on one yellow card. The key would have been to interrupt the Manc's game in their own half and not just a few yards in front of our own box. I guess most people have seen it the same way so I doubt Avram or Willy D missed that. To throw in another defensive player after Hernandez's (& Berbatov's) introduction wouldn't have changed anything - we already sat way too deep.
Check Cole's tweet guys...'felt I had more to give'...
He agrees with what I said. That's no April fool HF. Damning.
Piquionne is a lazy ass, he walked around, that 5 you gave him is favorable... What a ridiculous day. Ashamed to be a fan after that result, laziness all around.
Did they look that much fitter and faster first half? No. But when you are closing all game, chasing the ball rather than the ball doing the work, you tire. That's not difficult to explain. How fit was Parker? He looked off his game to me. Are you going to blame Grant for that when Parker was away on England duty and missed Tuesday's game with an injury? Ba was in Africa. Jacobsen was away with Denmark. I think people are being unrealistic here. We have lost our last 5 games in the league against Man Utd coming into this game without scoring a goal. Had it been 2-2 at half time and we'd lost 4-2 on the back of two dreadful refereeing decisions, the tone would be so different!
What's he going to say Stani, "Glad I was taken off, I didn't think I could offer any more?" Silly. Very silly. Like Cole for Tweeting what constitutes dissent at his manager's decision. He is going to get himself into trouble if he doesn't kick this tweeting addiction!
The euphoria is over, back to reality. We have a manager who obviously thinks that all managers think like him. Well this game proved otherwise. MU 2 down to a team fighting relegation what did Grant think Ferguson was going to do, let his side carry on the same way. He did what anyone would do throw everything at the opposition. What did we do sit back and wait for the disaster to strike. Yes the referee was extremely bad, and his decision making appeared impaired, perhaps he should have a rest or be in the championship. However, it would appear that it is a game of two halves, and the second one appears to be dreadful for us. What if Avram Grant did not give the half time talk, what if he was not there at all. I still think that Chris Houghton would be better, as Grant's half time talks put fear in to his side and his tactics or lack of them is apparent for all to see. If the West Ham Board are serious about staying up then something has to be done now, doing it when you are in the Championship is a bit late.
No HF, you are being silly. Obviously he's not gonna say that. He could have abstained from saying anything. Fact is, he didn't. Watch his face when he is taken off. Something will kick off before the seasons end.
right sorry but you cant blame that entirely on grant for one look who manchester united could bring on compared to us,hernandez,berbatov and nani sums that bit up perfectly and Zola would NOT have won that game in fact we played 4 games against manchester united under him and didnt score a single goal against them and what you fail to mention stani about zola is he had 3/4 of a season with curbishleys team and finished 9th. The nhe had afull season with his quad and did so well he kept us up with our lowest ever points total.Da costa got skinned everytime in the 2nd half was very reckless and got a stupid yellow you also are critical of noble everygame but nobody else is that not nitpicking aswell.The biggets mistake grant did make thought was selling diamanti who was zolas only good buy yet was always played out of position.
Our worst performance in the league for two months. Even in the first half despite scoring twice we were bossed. Regardless, Vidic should have been sent off, things could have been different.
Upson had an utter nightmare, what exactly was he doing giving Rooney so much time to lash in that shot for the equalizer? Why did he go to ground in the box prior to giving away that penalty for their third?
Parker also had one of his worst games of the season.
I think we were given the run around in the first half the stats tell the story. Man U also had players travelling round the world playing for their different countries, but they all still looked remarkably fit and energetic compared to us,and its not just this game, time and again the opposition look fitter,faster and more energetic
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