Wednesday 26 August 2009
West Ham v Millwall. A Simple Question.
Before the game kicked off, I posted that the best result would be for the night to pass off without incident. Once the match was underway, I was upset when we went behind and, until I heard about the stabbing and before the pitch invasions, was desperate for us to equalize. Never mind the Carling Cup, never mind it was Millwall, losing to a Division 1 team at home would have been humiliating and might have undermined confidence for the Premiership campaign ahead.
However, as the game ticked into the last ten minutes, I began to dread an equalizer. It was so obvious that a late goal and extra time would simply stoke the wild fire that was beginning to rage out of control. As a West Ham fan, I found myself wanting West Ham to lose for the sake of the reputation of the club and the safety of innocent fans, local residents and members of the emergency services.
Now I have called for West Ham to resign from the competition and, predictably, West Ham fans have objected. What about the players? What about the innocent fans? Well, my question is simple, you choose. Would you have preferred a shock exit from the Cup (whilst fielding an understrength side) and no violence; or would you rather be in the hat and have the violence of last night? What is more important, the reputation of the club or a place in the second round of a cup that is so meaningless that the big 4 let Tottenham win it?
If you look at the bigger picture, the answer should be obvious. The odds are against us winning it anyway. We could go out in the next round.
As somebody has rightly posted, if you were considering buying West Ham, would you want to be associated with the club after last night's events? What sort of business could risk a link with us after those scenes have been beamed around the world? The idiots who spilled onto the pitch and engaged in street violence may well have driven a nail into the club's coffin.
And what about our bid to host the 2018 World Cup? How bitterly ironic that the mindless element were from the Bobby Moore stand - the guy must be turning in his grave this morning at the disgrace brought upon the club and country he represented with such pride.
Zola meanwhile looks and sounds shell-shocked. What if he decides, to hell with this, I don't want to be involved with a club supported by this scum? He is a man of honour, a good, proud, honest, sporting man; I would not be surprised if he is wondering if he has found the right club for his "project". "Seven years at Chelsea and 11 months at West Ham and I have never seen anything like that before". That has a slightly ominous ring.
What if a resignation headed off more draconian sanctions? What is more important, a place in the next round or playing Premiership games behind closed doors?
Think of how we would assume the moral high ground as a club by saying the following:
"We won on the pitch but we do not want to take our place in the next round because we want the football world to understand that we share the disgust at what happened. Millwall played well but could not beat us; we were defeated by a sick element within our own fan base, an element that we wish to disassociate ourselves from completely. We understand that the majority of our fans are good people and know that they will understand why this move is necessary. The Carling Cup is a great competition but the good name of football and of West Ham United are much more important. We leave the competition undefeated but not unbowed. Sadly, it was the enemy within that hurt us more than the opposition team. They do not represent West Ham in any way but we accept responsibility for their actions and apologise unreservedly on their behalf. We wish Millwall well in the competition."
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25 comments:
for a less hysterical view-point on this issue read this http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/patrick_barclay/article6810857.ece
Taking the win away from the players in that amazing fight back is not the answer!
Why gift Millscum the place in the cup when you know as awell as me that they were NOT as innocent as the media are reporting!
Our boys (players) showed great heart to win that game and why make Collisons bravery be in vein???
Matt, the use of the term Millscum in the circumstances is totally inappropriate. It is that sort of language and mentality that led to the events last night. Millwall are a professional football club, like ourselves, engaged in a sport we all love. The club are not scum, whatever you may think of certain elements amongst their fans. The VAST majority of Millwall fans, like the vast majority of all fans, are decent people who love their football. Please reserve the use of the term "scum" for those, in whatever colours, who engaged in the violence and pitch invasions last night.
1552, the views expressed here are hardly hysterical. I invite fans to make a choice in the article. Which would you have preferred?
Can't disagree more with blogger.
I don't condone the pitch invasions, those taking part are idiots and will be identified and banned.
This fixture was always going to be tense as WHU v Milwall always is. Thugs (can't refer to them as fans) purporting to be "fans" from Millwall and other clubs descended upon East Ham with no match tickets, bent on violence. That is what inflamed the whole situation.
By withdrawing from the competition the club and the majority of decent fans, many of whom booed the idiots invading the pitch, will suffer and the thugs who came looking for trouble will have won.
And Matt, an "amazing fight back"? In normal time, we drew at home to a team in the old Division Three. Coming back to win after being two down away to Liverpool would be an amazing fight back. Scoring a late equalizer at home to Millwall is closer to humiliation than glory!
to answer your question I'll take the win .. stop being so hysterical worse things happen in city centres up and down the land every fri and sat night of the week - if it wasn't for an ever bloating and hungry media on all platforms this incident would merit far less mention
Says it all 1615. Glad I don't live in any of those cities.
if you were there you would know that you couldnt just pat Millwall on the back and say wish you well, off you go and win it, because they were equally to blame with elements of their support both inside and outside the ground. It wasn't all West Ham (and by saying that I'm not condoning the involved few or trying to deflect from what needs to be addressed.) However, this knee-jerk general West Ham bashing doesnt help either. Go to the game before you comment
Of course West Ham Football Club could wish Millwall Football Club well. It is called the moral HIGH GROUND for a reason.
I think that you being a bit melodramatic here, it was Millwall FFS, the authorities should have known better instead of being so complacent and it has now been found according to latest reports that it was also Millwall fans that were to blame for last night's fiasco, if we were playing anyone else last night, do you think that those scenes would have still happened? I don't. So it seems pretty clear that this was a one off and when the press stop over exaggerating the story and the dust settles, it will soon be forgotten about. It is interesting that mentioned Chelsea, but do you not think that there would have been the same scenes at The Bridge had Millwall been playing there instead of The Boleyn? Of course there would have, the fact of the matter is that wherever Millwall go, trouble follows. Just ask Hull fans about that when Millwall fans started ripping up the seats at The KC Stadium and throwing them at the Hull fans back in January. Now the so-called West Ham fans that were involved in the trouble last night deserve all that they get (the mindless wankers), but it would be perhaps disingenuous to just blame West Ham and punish both clubs, the players and the vast majority of genuine law abiding fans for the actions of a few mindless morons too harshly. A fine for both clubs and the perpetrators on both sides to be banned and prosecuted would suffice IMO and the appropriate authorities including the police to learn the valuable lessons from last night and not be so complacent in future.
Seriously?
Seriously, are you still doing this?
Isn't this the same article as the last one but with a bit more puff about it?
Invite the question to the fans?
Maybe going into the next round and actually conducting ourselves with dignity might show the world that this was a badly managed one off rather than robbing the players of the fruits of their hard work and the fans a chance to have a cup run - after the events of the weekend the club could do with a footballing lift.
Yes the odds are against us winning it but it is a chance we have and should take or else why bother even playing the game at all? We're never going to win the league...
I know we could be West Ham Bloggers United and compete to see how much crap we can fill cyberspace with as our knees jerking all over the shop at every moral outrage dreamed up for us by the liberal media who on one hand feed this behaviour with films such as Green Street and shit like Danny Dyer's Deadliest Men and then condemn a few fat blokes running onto a pitch with their shirt off.
Notice the advert for Nick Love's remake of The Firm on the SSN advert breaks last night while they gave it large about how we are scum?
For a West Ham fan you have a bizarre and consistent habit of running down the club - every single excuse you can find...
Yes the violence outside was abhorrent and no doubt the atmosphere in the ground was heated and our club is shamed in the nations eyes but ultimately another story will come along next week and it'll be forgotten.
Does that excuse it? No, but seriously get down of that high horse you are on in case you fall. I'm sure there are plenty more opportunities to moan about the club right around the corner.
I feel that giving our place in the cup up would just give the right message to the wrong people do you honestly believe that the idiots that behaved the way they did would care less (if they cared they would have exercised a modicum of self control and kept off the pitch) The idiots outside would have bragging rights as to how their 'honourable' action got Millwall through
These people do not care about the club or fans they are selfish and use the badge to propagate their filth in a similar action the Nazis took a good luck symbol and made the swastika their own
West Ham and West Ham fans should not be held responsible for their actions. Knowing the history of this rivalry West Ham sacrificed the turnover for safety in effectively closing the Sir Trevor Brooking stand and supplying a large number of stewards to keep those fans in check. It is always a wise man who judges in hindsight but the only fault really was not suspecting what would happen at the other end and not supplying adequate stewards that end and we all know that if the stewarding level had been that low all round the ground the Millwall fans would have got on the pitch as well (not the angels portrayed in the press) If the game had progressed 'to the script' West Ham would have won easily and the invasions would not have happened, so in a way West Ham as a club did what was right (believe me I've worked as a steward at West Ham and also owned a company that supplied stewards to Wembly stadium as well as Reading, Swindon Town and Oxford Utd the last being a club that used to have a lot of 'fans' with life bans imposed by clubs with better more high tech policing procedures)
A football match just gives the violent members of society a rallying point (and lets recognise that a number of them pay a lot of money to follow West Ham and the ones I know are very intelligent and big wage earners so not all mindless idiots and certainly bright enough to keep off the pitch) and they 'enjoy' the scrap and West Ham, as a club, is a pawn in their game
The problem is not football's problem it is a problem of society so punishing the football club would change nothing it needs for people to realise that their lives and the lives of others has importance and is to be valued far more than allegiance to a badge or symbol
Your players deserve to go through to the next round after winning under those conditions. Dont punish them. A hefty fine should be enough punishment for Wet Spam. To be honest the Fuzz fucked up last night. They massively underestimated the fierce rivalry that is WHFC Vs MFC!! Everyone invilved in football knew it would kick off, everyone but the pigs. Dicks.
More proof that Millwall are your biggest rivals not Spurs, like you all keep banging on about!
Good win none the less.
I'm not going to write essays like previous people, so I will just say despite the stabbing and pitch invasion I still wanted us to win, I wouldn't want us to lose if a plane landed on our pitch cutting Carlton Coles leg off. The violence would have happened regardless, and if anything people are lucky West Ham won, I dread to think if we had lost!
Apparently, the reason that no Millwall fans were involved in any of the pitch invasions last night was due to riot police holding them back thus preventing them from doing so, when the ground was inspected this morning it was discovered that seats had bean ripped up in the Millwall end and Carlton Cole was subject to racist abuse as I understood this morning by monkey chants. So it would appear that Millwall fans were not completely innocent after all. There is also a strong belief that the thugs who had no tickets that caused the trouble outside of the ground, were not regular supporters and were only there purely just to fight and to cause trouble with rumours that there were even Tottenham fans there just to have a ruck. So as far as West Ham are purely to blame, it puts a slightly different complexion on things IMO.
With respect, you've kneejerked yourself into hysteria on this one Hammersfan.
Spot on Duxbury 16:27, Deane 16:40 and anon16:40'
...if you were considering buying West Ham, would you want to be associated with the club after last night's events?...'
If I was a serious contender to buy the club and was concerned about last night's events, I would probably check on the history of the club since the inception of the Premiership to see how often this kind of thing occurs (every week, every month, once a season or only when WHU play Millwall ) and decide for myself whether to carry on with my proposed business dealings. Rather than relying on a limited amount of film footage, sensationlist headlines and kneejerk reactions from people who never attend games and crap pundits/commentators.
moorethemerrier
Duxbury, there are always these excuses. Please sir, he did it first. Please sir I wasn't the only one. Please sir he told me to do it. I am afraid that I find many of the responses unedifying. What happened was disgraceful, end of. People are trying to make excuses and that is not the way forward.
I'd like to quote Mr Zola "anybody who loves the game doesn't like this kind of things" well said Gianfranco Says it all in a simple sentence
With respect moorethemerrier, you are not a multi millionaire.
Think about the companies who have sponsored us. Doc Martens, Jobserve, a finance company that specialised in lending to high risk customers, a failing holiday company, a bookmakers...who have I forgotten? Why do the high street brands avoid us do you think?
Hammersfan... how many clubs have what you would describe as quality sponsorship?
And anyway by the time to SBOBET deal is up will anyone care that some fat blokes ran on the pitch if we are still top have with exciting youth prospects and management team?
Funny how you change tact to the money angle now when people have called you on the hysterical nature of the last couple of posts...
Especially when you call for us to withdraw from the cup.
We are now rightly going to receive a fine for failure to control a mindless few, we are broke and you are suggesting we actively deny ourselves the opportunity to earn more revenue?
If the club withdraws from the Cup we are (as a club) are admitting guilt on behalf of the idiots from last night and punishing players and fans alike.
A banning order and jail as required for the purporators shows that such actions will not be tolerated and as a club we should be doing our best to help bring those responsible for tarnishing the nature of our club to account.
It's also a bit rich to pull someone up on pathetic name calling when you do it all the time don't you think?
Maybe Scum might be a bit strong for your vocabulary but surely as a fan of the 'moral high ground' it would be better to acknowledge the fact that some people express themselves differently?
Haven't changed my tack, I'm answering a point raised by another contributor.
I do think it is inappropriate to use the term Millscum to describe the club at the moment, don't you?
Fanno, I am not making any excuses for the behavior of those twats, but I will not accept that West Ham are solely to blame and that the Millwall fans were innocent and as the reports are coming through, it would appear that they are not innocent at all, far from it. So if you are going to knock the mindless idiots that considered themselves to represent West Ham, fine! No argument from me there, but also reconise that there were arseholes who were just as guilty who considered themselves to represent Millwall. The truth is that none of these wankers are real football fans as they are more into violence and only turn up to games like Millwall just to have a ruck, they same sort of twats that go to cage fighting and bare knuckle events and love a bit of pit bull fighting and have nothing to do with West Ham, Millwall or football for that matter. To them, football is just a platform for them to ply their disgusting trade and the sad fact of the matter is where they should feel nothing but shame for their actions (which somebody who did wrong by getting swept up in the heat of the moment would), they feel would feel proud which shows that it was all premeditated. These scumbags regardless of what football club they claim to represent are no football fans at all.
You mentioned sponsorship, they mentioned sales... maybe I'm missing the point... I'm just not sure foreigners buying the club look at that sort of thing when buying the latest prestige toy of the super rich or Gold etc would baulk at buying the club...
Anyway...
It might be considered inappropriate right now but the rivalry is deeply ingrained with some people and that name isn't exactly new. Or that extreme.
All clubs have their quota of 'scum' to be fair but considering that most Millwall message boards are filled with revile even our savages and seem to cause a greater degree of trouble around the country and brag about it - statistics back up the fact that Millwall's violent conduct among fans is on the rise - would suggest that scum is not that displaced a word.
As is Spammer given this blog ;)
I agree with you 100% there Duxbury.
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