Ask David Moyes. Ask Alex McLeish. Ask Gerrard Houllier. Ask Mark Hughes. Ask Sam Allardyce. Ask Mick McCarthy. Even ask Ancelloti!
Portsmouth, Burnley and Hull are no longer in the division and their replacements are much stronger. And so are Bolton, Tottenham, Arsenal, Man City, Sunderland and Stoke. This is a much stronger division than last year's Prem and the teams who could not afford to strengthen significantly are finding the going tough.
Zola's team finished above Portsmouth, Burnley and Hull and behind the rest. Is it any wonder that Grant's side is therefore sitting bottom of the pile? It's what is called continuity!
34 comments:
Regrettably your logic makes no more sense than the picture you use in this article. It is all relative HF. We don't know if the other teams are stronger or whether we are just weaker. Maybe all the teams in the Premier League this year are not as strong as last year and we are even worse than we were under Zola. We can go speculating like this endlessly. What really matters is that we are bottom of the table 4 points away from safety. Can we turn things around? I think we can if we get rid of Grant tomorrow and bring in someone who can lead us of this mess.
Nonsense Sav. Sunderland have signed a £13m striker. Stoke have strengthened by signing Kenwyne and Walters. Bolton have built on last season and added Petrov to the ranks. Wolves have signed Fletcher. Tottenham have Van der Vaart. Arsenal's kids are a year older and they have added Chamakh to their ranks. Man City are so much stronger too. And you can't deny that West Brom and Newcastle are much stronger than Burnley and Hull. Blackpool are stronger in spirit if not ability than poor Pompey. Everybody in the game acknowledges that the lesser teams have closed the gap on the big boys this season. Those teams who have not strengthened - Liverpool, Villa, Everton, Birmingham, Fulham, Blackburn and even Chelsea are finding it much tougher.
The picture is of a bottom. It goes with the headline.
You're doing yourself no favours with this HF. I agree with Sav. This argument is silly. And you can name all those players but Grant brought in players too. Even if this league was stronger, G,S and Grant had plenty of time to prepare. Are you saying they did not prepare properly then?
And you are also directly contradicting what you said earlier in the season. Remember when you mentioned all those teams that were supposedly worse than us? Including Newcastle?
I tell you why we're bottom. "Portsmouth, Burnley and Hull are no longer in the division" and we have Portsmouth's manager! :)
McCarthy, DiMatteo and Holloway are all better managers than Grant. They are getting the best out of the average players they have. They also know a player when they see one. DiMatteo bought Odamwingie for £2.5m...the guy will leave for a top club within 2 years. Grant spent £4m on Winston Reid!
...I think the bottom was especially for me Sav! HF's always thinking of me....he's so considerate :)
First of all, you don't know what he spent on Reid, Stani, and secondly, you don't know it was Grant he wanted to buy him!
I still think that with a fully fit squad we are strong enough to compete in this division but we need Collison, Hitz and Noble in midfield! Get those three fit and playing and we will do much better. The trouble is, we are too far adrift already to save ourselves.
As I keep saying, Grant inherited a mess. Look at the problems we have had trying to replace Jacobsen since the injury. Why in God's name did Zola not find a replacement right back in two years at the club? Madness.
As for the bottom, you should not be looking! You know she is an unworthy hussy! And I'm married to her.
God HF. You lump Zola with all types of stuff without any proof and now you're questioning if Grant wanted Reid and whether he paid £4m? It's a bit like saying to me that I don't really know that the shape of the U.K is like it is because I haven't actually seen it from up high myself. Even if he paid £2.50 for Reid, it was too much. I know Ben Haim's on £43k...and that's a lot for someone who gives opposition players way (Adam Johnson) so that they can go and score. I told you Ben Haim's rubbish...and that he plays like he has chip rolls stuffed inside his legs. But anyway...the point is Grant had time and some money to remedy the squad.
We Had Neill and Faubert HF. Zola didn't exactly have the kind of support Grant has got now has he? Plus, Grant has done worse with the left back position. If he had seen anything good in Daprela, he surely would have kept him. The question is why he didnt see anything in Daprela. We dont need Noble in midfield.
I think we were touch and go until recently. It's the results Wolves and Wigan have just recently picked up that has really done it. We can only be saved by those two teams having a shocker for the rest of the season along with one other side. Looking at the league, I do not know which side that will be.
Well I did tell you not to put those pics up, so you're gonna get the punishment for me looking. In which case, I may look a title more. And you probably put that pic of that baby up to p me off too eh? That baby looks remarkably like David Sullivan by the way.
Collison's back in training. Should be 3-4 weeks.
Avram Grant did a fantastic job at Pompey - players, and fans, would have walked through walls for him. (he didn't do too bad at Chelsea either!).
I think you may need to look further than the manager to answer your question.
Good luck anyway, from a Pompey fan, and hey, you know what it's not SO bad where we are now.
If being in the bottom of the Prem looked like that, we'd be champions now wouldn't way.
Fanno, I suggest putting this instead:
http://barryjohnsonpitching.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Horses-ass.jpg
Stani I'm playing you at your own game!
Why did he let Daprela go? Why didn't Zola pick him more often? How about the possibility that, as with Pompey players, appreances triggered payments? And we didn't hhave the money to meet the payments? There was probably a big lump due after 10 league appearances for Daprela and another big lump due after Diamanti scored 10 goals. THAT is probably why we allowed both to go for next to nothing. Only thing that makes any sense don't you think?
Zola didn't have Neill through the whole of last season. You meant Faubert and Spector! That's why Grant sourced Jacobsen! He tried out Dyer and Tomkins at RB, saw neither worked, and went into the market. And thus far, Jacobsen has looked good. Zola, in contrast seemed to think, "RB, not important, a lazy French winger and a hopeless American can cover that position!"
Of our left back options - Ilunga, Gabbidon, Spector and TBH - TBH has looked the best to me. Blaming him for the Johnson goal is incredibly harsh because that was a brilliantly crafted goal. The run from Johnson was Messi like and the pass from Silva absolutely brilliant. We mark zonally and that sort of move will result in a goal scoring opportunity 99 times out of 100 with a zonal marking system.
Cheers Ralph - a voice of reason!
This continuous argument over which manager has bought our cluc to its knees wouldnt be necessary if we now had the tranparancy that our beloved co-owners promised us last january.
Who would have thought that a couple of porn peddlers could be dishonest?!
The Johnson Goal was pretty well played but you could clearly see what Silva and Johnson were going to do. Ben Haim just stopped running when Silva played the ball and watched the whole situation from a good point of view. It wasn't totally his fault but he could have done better. Ben Haim is a decent player but as a right/left back you need a good acceleration and you have to be quick. Sadly we lack of those players in the defense.
Totally agree HAMM3R. We need with lack right and left backs with acceleration on their feet. It has been so for more than two years now. Daprela came close to filling the bill and our grant gurus got rid of him! Grant is not the manager to save West Ham from going down. Even Allardyce (who I hate for style of play) can do a better job than Grant in this respect.
I stil don't understand why HF is so impressed with Avram Grant. Really, is this the same person who was so critical of Zola last year? I was also critical of Zola, but right now I would have GZ back with pleasure in place of clueless (and "we are doing just fine...") Grant.
I'm not impressed with Grant, but he inherited an absolute mess and has been in the job less than 6 months. I'd have O'Neill tomorrow but would he join us and could he work for G&S? Pardew has gone now, I am a fan of his. Who else is there? Zola left behind a shit team with broken hearts and no commitment. Grant can't be judged yet.
The thing is HF, we can't afford to wait for the right time to judge Grant. Why do you think they sacked Allardyce today? Because this is the only right time bring someone that can use the January window to rebuild the team. It maybe a little unfair for AG but in this business the Club takes priority over being fair to managers. I am not willing to see my club go down just in case I am wrong with my assessment of Grant. We need a change now, not tomorrow and not next year. It is our only chance.
Sav.... that's not what I said, you're trying to twist my words!
Don't worry about the bottom, if she had a head scarf on she'd be a good woman. Just like the woman they're going to kill in Iran who is a murderer and just like the one they stoned for being an adulteress - they all wore head scarves!
Not impressed?!! understatement of the century. You're becoming such a fence sitter these days. Why oh why can't you be honest with us and yourself?
Ralph,
With all due respect, if you look at the facts and figures in the cold light of day, Grant was poor at Pompey. He lost 16 of his 33 games in charge, winning just 10. His record with us is even worse because he had better players at Pompey last year...better than Zola had at West Ham, but which team stayed up?
He tried to create this siege mentality and made people (including Pompey fans) feel sorry for him because it was only him and the team against everyone, including the club. But he doesn't have this situation to play on now because he has the backing of the club and our fans are not worried about liquidation but relegation.
Also, part of your positivity comes from the fact that your club was about to be liquidated. Grant took you down yet you had bigger things to worry about like the future existence of your club. Because your club was saved, anything in comparison (like relegation) was insignificant.
Grant had been tapped up and was in an agreement with G&S even before your season was done. It was obvious, because he went from suddenly wanting to stay at Pompey to 'I will only talk about it when our season has finished'. He bullsh*tted the Pompey fans and no one took notice because there were more pressing concerns such as saving the club.
Also, I can only speak for myself but I am not only critical of Grant but of the people that hired him too. I want them all out of our club.
HF,
I don't play games mate. I play football though, and if you played me at that, you'd get a sound thrashing :)
Daprela; Maybe he wasn't ready then? I bet Zola would be piking him in our current situation though! But Grant sold him! We didn't have the money to meet the payments? How much could it have been HF? We wasted money on players like Reid and Ben Haim. This could have easily been used if there were any triggered payments relating to Daprela. Same with Diamanti. If there were trigger payments, why did we spend money on other players when we could have used it to keep those two players who could have been much ore vital than the likes of Reid and Ben Haim?
I am absolutely astonished you are defending Ben Haim for that Johnson goal. In fact, he should take defensive lessons from you. It was not like Johnson was behind him and made a blind run. He ran right in front of Ben Haim yet he is just standing there flat footed giving him way. He hadn't a clue where he was positioned and did not read what was happening. You should seriously go see it again and reconsider your defence of him.
I cannot believe you think he is our best option at left back. Have you seen the amount of times he drifts in field leaving a massive gap at left back? Watch him do it at corners too, when he just chases the ball and relinquishes his duties. See Ballotelli's header, which was cleared off the line by Barrera I think. He makes big mistakes every game. He was the one who played everyone on side for Henderson's goal the other day.
Sav,
I agree, I'm not certain why HF is continuing to support Grant too. There have been times in the past that it has taken much less evidence for him to change his mind on things. But with Grant, he is not sticking to the same (his) rules. Strange
Sav, I am being honest. I'm not saying I am impressed with Grant, I am saying that we have to stick with him having appointed him. And we ARE in the semifinal of the League Cup!
Stani, re your reply to Ralph, Grant did not manufacture the situation at Pompey and did not cultivate a seige mentality for his own purposes. Remember how they only had three outfield players on the sub's bench when they played us at Fratton Park? Zola's team could still only scrape a 1-1 draw. If these Pompey players were so good, where are they now? Two of them, Piquionne and Ben Haim, are at our club and you are critical of both!
Look at that Portsmouth team that played us.
Bergovich is at Stoke, Finnan was released on a free, Kaboul is at Spurs but defected at the end of January, Marc Wilson is at Stoke, Hreidessen is still at Pompey, Basinas currently does not have a club, Mokoena is still with Pompey as is Hayden Mullins, Boateng is at Milan, Piquionne is with us and Utaka is still at Pompey.
Of that lot, Kaboul, Wilson, Boateng and Piquionne, at most, would have made it into the West Ham team! And he lost Kaboul in the January window!
You do your argument no good whatsoever by seeking to make light of the problems Pompey faced. The players were not being paid their wages, the club faced extinction, there was a huge points reduction and all sorts of contract issues that prevented Grant from playing players, due to trigger payments, even when they were available!
Seige mentality? How he got them to play with so much spirit is beyond me. I watched their game at Villa Park when he was down to 12 professionals to pick from and the Pompey players fought for every ball as if their lives depended upon it, even though they were already as good as down and even though players were being played out of position. If they had boots, they were in the team! It was an amazing performance!
Stani - We haven't bought Ben Haim have we? I've no idea what the trigger payments might have been for Daprela and Diamanti but neither were in Zola's team at the end of last season so he clearly didn't think they were up to the job. You criticise Grant, so why wasn't Zola selecting them?
As for Ben Haim, Gabbidon has been shit and Ilunga even worse!
HF,
Obviously the situation wasn't created by him but he used it. That is my point. He does not have that here to use and has to use proper football management skills. He doesn't have any so is found wanting.
I did not say we bought BenHaim. We're paying him £43k a week. My point was that this too could have been used for any triggered payments for Daprela/Diamanti. Right?
-Begovic is a better keeper than Green and at a club which is 12 in the league.
-Finnan could get in our current team with our problems at full-back
-Kaboul is playing for a champions league club
-We do not have anyone at the club as skilful as Kanu
-Wilson REJECTED US AND GRANT, and chose Stoke instead (he has a brain)
-Boateng is at one of the biggest clubs in the world
-David James was better than Green
-Utaka would easily get into our team
-Belhadj would easily get in our team
- OHara would easily get in our team
-Dindane would easily get in our team
He had a better team than Zola.
Zola would be selecting Daprela and Diamanti now. So would Grant....if he hadn't sold them. But you trap yourself here anyway. If they were sold because of the triggered payments, then that is the reason Zola didn't play them then right?
By your own admission, we have almost reached the point of no return and yet you prefer to be fair to Mr. Avram Grant rather than urge all to do whatever is possible to save our club! That is what I can't get mind around regarding your "be fair to Grant campaign". Moreover, you keep saying that we are doomed and that we should prepare for the Championship. Six months before the end of the season and four points away from safety! It is mind boggling! How do you do this? How can any genuine West Ham fan contemplate all these? Really it is getting very tiring listening to your reasoning and pathetic attempts to justify our submission to the inevitable. You seem to be more concerned with saving Avram Grant than West Ham! Unless you are just doing it to upset everyone.
Time to wake up Sav. Our last 38 games, a full Premiership season, have yielded 31 points. That would see us relegated in EVERY year that the Prem has existed. Grant has only been in charge for 17 of those games, Zola for 21. Grant has collected 12 points from his 17 games, Zola collected 19 from 21. Zola's record is slightly better but it included 4 points against Portsmouth and 3 against Hull, neither of whom are now in the division. Take off those 7 points and Zola's record in the second half of the season reads 12 points from 18 games! Familiar ring there by any chance?
If Grant had taken over a successful team, as Zola did, then the criticism would be fair enough. But he didn't! He inherited an absolute mess!
Let me put it as bluntly as I can to you. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHETHER GRANT IS BETTER THAN ZOLA OR VICE VERSA!
Can we now please speak about how we can turn the corner and save our club from relegation? Thank you.
We can talk about it all we like but it won't make any difference! We are going down Sav. The gap is too big already, the players are resigned to going down and don't give a shit. Zola told them they were brilliant and not to blame and they believed him. It's the owners' fault, it's the manager's fault, it's the referee's fault, it's the fans' fault for booing, it's the fault of Lady Luck, it's everybody's fault EXCEPT theirs!
If being bottom is referring to the picture, quite frankly I'd like to stay there :-)
Jack
I agree Jack. That has to be the best Arse this side of the Emirates!
...Wenger HF? You need to be clearer or people will start thinking things.
Good dialogue, guys/gals- enjoyed it.
Hammersfan, thanks for your support.
Ralph.
P.S. where did you get my wife's photo, and did she say you could use it???
Cheers.
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