Monday 23 November 2009

Liverpool Fan Hits Back In Defence Of Rafa


Hammersfan I think someone like myself whose seen us win NINE League Titles has a fair idea of what's required to win the damn thing no?

I KNOW that winning at places like Birmingham, Sunderland and Fulham is needed to win the league. Look at our record last year - 2 defeats only and we DID win at Sunderland AND Fulham but we STILL didn't win it. I DO think it's a bit much to expect us to win EVERYWHERE when A:) half our squad/ backup (like Hyppia, Arbeloa and Alonso) has gone and been replaced by either dross or injuries and B:) our players are going down like they're on the Somme and have been all season. (We've missed Aquilani, Gerrard, Skrtel, Agger, Carragher, Johnson, Torres, Riera, Benayoun, Babel, Aurelio AND Mascherano through various injuries/absences ALL season which is more than a FULL team) and I doubt our first choice back four has played together at all; So the losses and disasters come as little surprise - Unlike Chelsea we CAN'T buy a whole new team per injury crisis.

And to the idiot who follows the media mantras about Rafa' not buying well or not nurturing young players in comparism to Taggart at Old Trafford and the Mad Professor at the Emirates. Really? I don't hear you mentioning the fact that Nani's A:) had no effect at United since being bought AND had a go at Fergie in the press recently resulting in him being dropped from the team. And what of other youngsters we've heard of in recent years at Old Trafford? People like Macheda, Pugh, Even Ben Foster has started complaining and agitating for a move, what of the likes of Cathcart, Bellion, even Anderson's gone backwards this season - WHERE is United's NEW crop of 'fledglings' ala Beckham, Giggs, Scholes etc then? The last REAL player United brought from their youth system was probably John O'Shea and you have to go ALL the way back to 2001 for him.

As to Arsenal; Well, let's see; what of Wenger's much publicised 'English' drain from Arsenal - Good young ENGLISH players like Hoyte, Bentley, Taylor and even Ashley Cole ALL gone in favour of foreign imports - SURELY as a West Ham fan you have something to say there? - ESPECIALLY since those same foreign imports block the progress of Arsenal's vaunted 'youngsters' who then get sold on for a profit as Hoyte did? I'll bet now that the likes of Carlos Vela and Aaron Ramsey much vaunted as they are have a HECK of a job getting in Arsenal's team over the next few seasons and even get loaned out; That's happened with Arsenal ever since they moved stadiums and won't change.

Liverpool? Well since Gerrard and Carragher came through our academy along with David Thompson in the late 90's; We've brought through Stephen Warnock, Neil Mellor who have since played in the Premiership elsewhere (and still do in Warnock's case) and more recently players like Emiliano Insua, Jay Spearing, Martin Kelly and Nathan Ecclestone and now David N'gog have ALL had a chance in our first team and come through from our Academy or reserves; They may not all be GREAT players but they ARE from our Academy/Reserve sides; all of them - Unlike Babel which the fool I'm replying to forgets TWO things about;

1:) He was BOUGHT in 2007 for ELEVEN million.

2:) He's had PLENTY of chances including nearly the whole of the 2007/2008 and a lot of 2008/2009 seasons but like many young players; He suddenly seems to think he's 'made it', stops working hard/loses his 'spark' and talks more in the media than on the pitch. THAT is why Rafa's not picking him regularly - He has PLENTY of talent but just can't be arsed to use it Except where he has a point to prove ala Lyon - IF LFC need to play as they do against United in EVERY game, then Babel NEEDS to play like he did in Lyon EVERY game before a manager like Rafa' picks him regularly. Can he improve enough? We shall see......................

Oh yes, and regarding arguments about Rafa' buying players/improving them - Well firstly, it's a BIT hard to pick and choose GOOD players (who cost LOTS of cash) when you're told to A:) sell off your backup squad to afford them or B:) BANNED from buying your primary targets due to lack of funds - BOTH of which has happened to Rafa' in the not to distant past in the transfer market.

Yes, he's bought the likes of Voronin, Riera, Benayoun (whose a brilliant player now anyway), Skrtel, Crouch and Sissoko amongst others but that's mainly because he was denied the funds to buy his REAL targets which included players like Silva, Villa, Vidic, Simao, Tevez and Barry (who Rafa himself said was meant to play ALONGSIDE Alonso - NOT instead of him) When you look thus at his REAL targets instead of what he got (second and sometimes third choice in the case of Kyrgiakos) I think his eye for talent is obvious.

And it's an eye for talent that becomes even CLEARER when you look at the players he DID get and either developed or groomed into stars - His 'big' buys/best players if you will (and even some slightly below that level show how well he can spot talent); Players like Reina, Alonso, Torres, Crouch (who he developed into a record England goalscorer for the national team - our national sides ONLY reliable source of goals other than Rooney),Garcia, Kuyt, Agger, Pongolle (bought by his predecessor but developed by him), Your own former hammer Mascherano, Finnan, Sissoko, Gerrard himself (whose become FAR deadlier going forward), Carragher (whose he's developed from Houllier's fullback into a centre back) and more recently Agger, Skrtel and it looks like N'gog (whose improving by the game and in our last three Home games has set up 1 goal and scored twice).

Now, the above are ALL players he's either bought big, bought unknown/little known, brought from our reserves OR inherited and in all cases in which he has improved beyond all recognition until they can command fees like the 30 million recieved for Alonso or the 36 million spoken of for Masch'. In short all of whom, he's helped turn into if not World Class stars then certainly top-class/International level ones.

You don't believe me about Rafa's improvements to his players? Then think back to 2007 and England's doomed Euro 2008 campaign - Remember the clamour for Carragher (a jobbing centre back and traitor according to certain areas of the press - a 'coward' according to others for the twin crimes of putting his family first after being f*cked around by the England manager {and I use that term loosely for Steve Mcdonut} once to often AND the unforgivable sin of (shock, gasp) MISSING a penalty at the World Cup - Boo!!! Can't have that can we? I know, He's Liverpool, let's crucify him - Only Jamie wouldn't have it and quit England that summer - he was the wrong side of 30 anyway (funny, but I don't seem to remember Paul Scholes getting that level of abuse on HIS retirement from England in 2004 and he's refused at LEAST 3 times to come back).

Anyway - we could of done with Carragher's nous, determination and defensive ability v Croatia that awful night in November 2007 no? We might even (heaven forbid for we'd prob' STILL have Mcuseless at the helm) have qualified for Euro 2008 and all would be forgiven but think of this - The shouting and clamour was for Jamie to play as a CENTRE-BACK; Do you REALLY think that would of occurred say 8 years ago or so when he played FULL-BACK under Houllier? Don't make me laugh - of course not. And just WHO transformed him into this international level centre back - None other than Benitez that's who (and before anyone says he's no good - he got us to the CL final that season with his defending so he can't be THAT bad can he?).

Finally, please take the case of one Stephen Gerrard - formerly a (VERY) indisciplined) central midfielder who charged all over the place like Roadrunner in attempts to 'command' games under Houllier - He has under Benitez developed into one of the foremost scoring forces (and one half of one of THE truly deadly partnerships with Torres) in the English Premier League and thus Europe; He knows when, where and HOW to attack now and regularly breaks the 15/18 goal a season barrier (even 20 odd sometimes) whereas back as that undisciplined midfielder he rarely got even 10 a season;

Most importantly of all, he's one of the VERY few English players who knows HOW to play in 'the hole' where continental sides do so much damage and in view of that and the way he can drift all over the pitch and do such massive damage is also well on the way to forming a similar telepathy with the nation's other great Scouse footballer - Wayne Rooney under the direction of one of the few managers I see as Rafa's superior in Don Fabio Capello - England Manager who using Rooney and Gerrard as a template (and to a lesser extent Lampard and Crouch) has turned England into a scoring force reborn. But just WHO taught Gerrard to play like this in the first place as he showed LITTLE sign of it back in 2004 when Benitez came did he? Yep, that's right, Rafa' again.

So far from being unable to improve players - I think in Gerrard's case, the England team owe Mr Benitez a debt of thanks for helping modernise our attack in the way he has 'updated' Gerrard's abilities and just think IF Mcawful had been just a LITTLE more tactful with Carragher (i.e. NOT saying he'll play at centre back and then shoving him out to full-back/midfield/anywhere but full-back at every chance) then maybe, just maybe we'd have qualified for Euro 2008 and Mcabysmal MIGHT just have kept his jo.............

Actually, no DON'T think of that, it's to awful a thought to contemplate - Croatia did us the biggest favour imaginable by knocking us out at Wembley 2 years back as they took our complacency and old-fashioned arrogance with them forever. Anyway, I think Carragher coming back COULD of stopped that elimination happening as Rafa's turned him into an excellent centre half and he certainly wasn't that when Rafa' came here - far from it actually.

As to LFC's more recent acquisitions; Who knows but should Aquilani fulfil his potential AND Babel wake up and work to fulfil his - we may even add 2 more names to that list before long? We shall see - yes Rafa's had his failures (like Bellamy, Morientes, Kromkamp, Kewell, Gonzalez and Nunez to name but 5) but then what manager doesn't? I could name equally large lists of failures for Alec Ferguson, Arsene Wenger and whichever manager is at Chelsea this particular month if you like. But because it's Liverpool - people seem to notice far more no?

I think looking at the above though - the players he's bought, inherited etc AND improved out of all recognition AND the players he WANTED to buy but couldn't - having to settle for second/third best etc Along with all he's done for Liverpool in the league, FA Cup and Europe in his time here whilst hamstrung (having to sell to buy OR to constantly trim his squad/accept second best and NEVER coming close to Chelsea/Man U style funding) then it's clear that Rafa's not so much a manager as a miracle worker and to accuse him of 'lacking an eye for talent'/'being unable to develop young players'/wasting money under the CONDITIONS he's worked under (i.e. by ignoring said conditions) is not just wrong and stupid, but also pathetic.

Rafa's a World Class Manager,and IF Liverpool DO ever get the same type of funding that certain teams enjoy during his tenure then this blog (which seems to enjoy criticising him) will lose one of the reasons for it's existence as he'll clear up EVERYTHING in the trophy stakes for years...............

11 comments:

Deane said...

sorry but am I the only one that thought that was a pointless rant seemed to counter his own arguments and really left us with Liverpool are broke and can't afford to compete anymore (even if not quite down with the rest) which really is what you said in the first place

Hammersfan said...

Thought it fair to bring it to the table as an article after the author, anonymously sadly, took the time to set out his opinions. I don't agree with what he says Deane but it is an opinion for you and others to challenge if you feel so inclined. I stand by my original article, that Liverpool are in the shite up to their noses.

Anonymous said...

I'm not the author but I agree with most of what he his saying.

In a nutshell, this is Rafa's first 'crisis' at Liverpool in terms of form. Each factor has played a part - injuries, bad luck (e.g. the beach ball) and lack of funding for quality players throughout his reign (check his net spend - about 20M per season).

Most fans want him to work his way out of it - including me. Alot of other fans, use the media to say he should go with no realistic perception of who would come in and do a better job with less money than Rafa has had.

And finally, I do find this amusing that this is debated on a west ham fansite. Don't you have enough problems of your own guys. You really think Zola is the man for you?

Hammersfan said...

To the author, I can't believe you are quoting injuries to West Ham fans as an excuse! Dear God, we have been running our own franchise for BUPA for the best part of 4 years now and we do not have Liverpool's resources!

The fact is, Rafa has spent a King's ransom building this tissue thin squad. Nobody made him spend £17m on Johnson whilst allowing Sunderland to buy Bent and Tottenham to buy Defoe. I suspect he could have had either if he had wanted them. And, of course there is a certain Michael Owen who he could have had for nothing - but Rafa knew best!

Anonymous said...

Can I ask why Hammersfans are debating about Liverpool and our manager. You would do well to research your articles than listen to Sky sports for your information.

We are not in the bottom half of the table so perhaps your concerns should be directed more to your team than ours!!!!!!

Hammersfan said...

1734, I think a Liverpool fan wrote the article!

Why are we debating it here? Because I loathe Liverpool FC and am enjoying watching your demise - which I predicted before the season kicked off. That said, I don't want your slide to go too far. I am a traditionalist when it comes to football and, as much as I dislike Leeds, I don't want to see them in the old Third Division, nor Southampton either. I hope Liverpool remain a top half of the table team even after Torres seeks trophies with another team. Man Utd still have the Ronaldo money to spend don't they? ; }

Anonymous said...

The only thing keeping West Ham in the premiership is the really poor resources of the three upcoming clubs. You will finish 4th bottom. 5th bottom at best.

The popular myth about Rafa is that he has had endless cash to spend. Check the facts - he's balanced the books pretty well. The guy cannot win - if he'd have gone out and bought one 20M player each season (and no one else) from the start and it not worked everyone would be saying where is the depth. He's tried to spend money on unproven players because Liverpool don't have the muscle of Chelski and Utd.

Show me another manager that could work on such a tight budget and keep the club in the top 4. Even Wenger spent heavily when he arrived - now he doesn't spend so much, Arsenal aren't winning things except awards for pretty passing.

Liverpool have a first 11 to match anyone. That would leave, Riera, Babel, Skrtel, Aurelio, Lucas etc on the bench. When you look at that - you realise the squad isn't so thin after all. When you have injuries - your squad does look thinner.

I think I hate west ham now I have found this blog.

Hammersfan said...

How much did he pay for Torres? Over £20m wasn't it? It was £17m for Johnson wasn't it? How much for the new midfielder? Wasn't that close to £20m? He has spent a fortune!

Hate West Ham if you like; I detest Liverpool!

Moore2come said...

Man, LFC fan's are facking stupid. They give it the big I am whenever they win the champs league or FA Cup but then cry like facking babies when people point out that they would probably win the prem if it wasn't for the fat waiter having more rotations than a spinning top! First time for injuries, shame that. The fat tit in charge has had more funds to spend than the majority of clubs in the Prem but pi$$ed it up the wall on shite. How about being patient and saving for a change instead of bitching you can't blow 20mill on one player so to compensate buying 3 cack ones. 80mill burning a hole in Fergie's pocket at the mo, he hasn't gone out and pi$$ed that down the drain on unheard tripe! Stop your facking whining, you're annoying me

Anonymous said...

Why is the reaction so OTT!

We cant win every game of football.

Facts - United went 26 years without winning a title, these were the same 26 years when football was dominated by Merseyside

Facts - Chelse went 50 years without winning the title, again in the same period, football was dominated by teams in the North.

Facts - Man United have dominated English football for the last 20 years - given. With a bit of help from Chelsea and Arsenal, and the odd league win by Blackburn Rovers when they bought the league, then sold it when Shearer made the worst move of his life going to Newcastle.

What im trying to point out is that success amongst the big clubs swings in roundabouts.

So we are having a poor season, look at the table, we 7th and we are 5 points behind 2nd place..Yet we havent had our best XI out on the pitch in two successive games.

So we have been knocked out the champions league, if you dont play well, then you dont deserve to go through, end of story. Plus Lyon are a very good side who also consistently get through the group stages whilst Fiorentina played very well, and with 4 wins out of 5, that would suggest they deserve to go through.

As for the players bought in. Well its upto them to prove they are good enough to wear the shirt. The one thing a lot of these players have on their side is time. For example, look at the age of our first XI

Reina - 26
Johnson - 26
Agger - 24
Carragher - 31
Insua - 21
Gerrard - 29
Mascherano - 26
Lucas - 22 / Aquilani - 24
Riera - 26
Kuyt - 28
Torres - 24

Then you look at our back up
Skrtel = early 20s
ngog - 20
Spearing - 19
Aurelio - 29
Babel - 22
Cavalieri - under 30

I think these are rough estimates, so a year either side on many.

I would rather be 7th and 5 points of 2nd place, than in the bottom 3. I think if we were in the bottom 3, then we would panic.

Its only November, there are 6 months left of the season, so much football to be played, so many more twists and turns.

Hammersfan said...

Good to see you remaining so philisophical. Hope you are still so upbeat when Rafa and Torres depart to Real Madrid!