Another round of Premiership fixtures and the Liverpool crisis deepens. Tottenham's breath taking hammering of Wigan suggests that they are genuine top 4 contenders and, whilst Arsenal lost at Sunderland, that merely replicates Liverpool's result at the Stadium of Fright. The big thing is that Arsenal lost one away point whilst Liverpool lost two home points, so even in defeat, Arsenal are the net winners. Man City will probably count it as a point gained as well, whilst Villa "broke even" with their result at Burnley. So the biggest net losers over the weekend? Liverpool.
And before Liverpool fans mouth off about our mess - we know! But we are West Ham, the yo-yo club that won the World Cup; you are Liverpool, the footballing giants cut down to the size of dwarfs by American owners who promised glory and have brought an unfolding misery. An early exit from the Champions League is imminent, the Premier League title has disappeared out of reach faster than under Sounness or Evans, but much more serious is the threat of not qualifying for the Champions League Cash Cow next season. The debts at Liverpool are truly massive and the revenue stream from the Champions League is all that is keeping the club afloat. If that goes, God help them!
Of course there is a delicious irony here. Scousers have been nicking the wheels off foreign cars for years; how wonderful that two foreigners have nicked the wheels off the Liverpool coach!
Benitez to Real Madrid in January anybody? In fact, are Torres and Benitez already waving goodbye in that picture?
13 comments:
It often helps to look away from your own mess for a moment, but when you have a reality check your mess is a lot worse than ours. Remember the cream always rises to the top YNWA
Is that why Chelsea are leading the Prem and why Liverpool haven't won it for, what is it, nearly 30 years?
Idiot - Ever thought that we'll win EITHER way? IF we DO go out of the CL AND don't qualify next season then the debts WILL hit the owners so hard AND threaten the banks money that they WILL force a sale and then? We'll be bought out by owners who make Roman Abramovich and the muppets at Man City look like paupers - Then I doubt you'll be writing about LFC and anything other than trophies for a LONG time as with PROPER backing Rafa' WILL clean up in the trophy stakes;
On the other hand there's always the chance (certainty I'd say with over 60 millions worth of talent to return to FULL fitness and the best striker on the planet to come back) That we WILL do what we've done EVERY season under Rafa' and what we WILL do this which is go on a looooong run of games where we don't even concede a goal never mind lose and THAT will be more than enough to burn off the likes of Spurs, Villa et al;
They've all bottled it already don't you get it? They've got to play each other soon so SOME of them WILL lose points whilst other than Arsenal who don't have a good record at Anfield we've NO really big teams left to play now until around March I think (we play Arsenal again in April and Chelsea in May after United in March); The three chasing us (Villa Spurs and City) SHOULD have been 9/10 points clear of us by now but they're not and now we play Villa over Christmas and Spurs in January - Should we go on an unbeaten run soon and give BOTH a good battering - We'll soon be back up there and with Torres - a FIT Torres coming to our team soon along with 20 million worth of Aquilani;
With all this and not to mention the fact that when Rafa' NEEDS to win games he DOES (check his record in REAL must win games if you don't believe me) then I think we're well placed to take our usual place amongs the lands best 4 teams because bad as we are, we're still FAR better than our pursuers and STILL the side that almost took the Premier League title last season - I think to we're about to remind a few teams of that - The teams chasing us have had their chance to make any run by us irrelevant and they f*cked it up badly - they WON'T get another..................
NB Regarding West Ham - I KNOW you're in a mess but to be honest, like most LFC fans - I don't really care or know that much about it; We're to busy with our own problems at present and West Ham are not that relevant to us other than when their fans try and comment on our affairs which are no concern of theirs. Still, I like Zola and think HE's had a lot of bad luck with injuries but also been a bit naive at times and attacked when he should have defended along with defending in games when he SHOULD attack. He'll learn though. We'll see how he does for the rest of the season won't we? Time will tell in both clubs cases as it always does......................
Liverpool need to get rid of Gillette, Hicks and Benitez before they can move on.
Benitez has bought poor and them two cowboys have let him.
He also does not improve youngsters as well as Fergy or Wenger do. I feel for Babel. Under Fergy or Wenger he could have been a big star by now. Benitez has dumbed him down.
Liverpool can do far more worse than going for Roy Hodgson. The guy is a top quality manager, revered in Italy and has endless links around the footballing globe.
1914, you nail it yourself. Rafa wins the real must win games! Don't you understand that to win the Prem, games like Birmingham at home and Fulham away are must win games? It's no good beating United one week then losing to Fulham the next. THAT is Rafa's problem. Until he treats Birmingham with the same respect as he treats United, you lot are going nowhere other than down the tubes!
I like the way a West Ham fan criticizes LFC because they have one bad season mixed within so many successes. West Ham are heading full throttle for relegation under a useless lump of cack manager and what do Wham fans do... They criticise another team! You Wham fans really are morbidly retarded.
D.
D, honest assessment. Is your anger down to the fact you know that I'm telling the truth?
I'm a West Ham fan - I know my place. Somewhere around the bottom of the table. Not being relegated is a result. Watching the scousers go into meltdown while they still think they are world-beaters is priceless. Zola cack? That's a northern expression I believe, does it mean not very good? Rather him than Rafa. He's lost the plot1 If not for Torres West Ham would have beaten Liverpool. No CL next season them scouseres are in deep doo-doo. That would probably be the best thing possible for the Premier League. Instead of a top four, there will be a top six or seven and the following season a top ten or twelve. Break up the top four and the whole league gets a chance. Man Utd in the Championship in 2020? Don't laugh, West Ham will win the Champion's League that season! Got to go now, it's time for my medication. HaHa
Hammersfan I think someone like myself whose seen us win NINE League Titles has a fair idea of what's required to win the damn thing no?
I KNOW that winning at places like Birmingham, Sunderland and Fulham is needed to win the league. Look at our record last year - 2 defeats only and we DID win at Sunderland AND Fulham but we STILL didn't win it. I DO think it's a bit much to expect us to win EVERYWHERE when A:) half our squad/ backup (like Hyppia, Arbeloa and Alonso) has gone and been replaced by either dross or injuries and B:) our players are going down like they're on the Somme and have been all season. (We've missed Aquilani, Gerrard, Skrtel, Agger, Carragher, Johnson, Torres, Riera, Benayoun, Babel, Aurelio AND Mascherano through various injuries/absences ALL season which is more than a FULL team) and I doubt our first choice back four has played together at all; So the losses and disasters come as little surprise - Unlike Chelsea we CAN'T buy a whole new team per injury crisis.
And to the idiot who follows the media mantras about Rafa' not buying well or not nurturing young players in comparism to Taggart at Old Trafford and the Mad Professor at the Emirates. Really? I don't hear you mentioning the fact that Nani's A:) had no effect at United since being bought AND had a go at Fergie in the press recently resulting in him being dropped from the team. And what of other youngsters we've heard of in recent years at Old Trafford? People like Macheda, Pugh, Even Ben Foster has started complaining and agitating for a move, what of the likes of Cathcart, Bellion, even Anderson's gone backwards this season - WHERE is United's NEW crop of 'fledglings' ala Beckham, Giggs, Scholes etc then? The last REAL player United brought from their youth system was probably John O'Shea and you have to go ALL the way back to 2001 for him.
As to Arsenal; Well, let's see; what of Wenger's much publicised 'English' drain from Arsenal - Good young ENGLISH players like Hoyte, Bentley, Taylor and even Ashley Cole ALL gone in favour of foreign imports - SURELY as a West Ham fan you have something to say there? - ESPECIALLY since those same foreign imports block the progress of Arsenal's vaunted 'youngsters' who then get sold on for a profit as Hoyte did? I'll bet now that the likes of Carlos Vela and Aaron Ramsey much vaunted as they are have a HECK of a job getting in Arsenal's team over the next few seasons and even get loaned out; That's happened with Arsenal ever since they moved stadiums and won't change.
Liverpool? Well since Gerrard and Carragher came through our academy along with David Thompson in the late 90's; We've brought through Stephen Warnock, Neil Mellor who have since played in the Premiership elsewhere (and still do in Warnock's case) and more recently players like Emiliano Insua, Jay Spearing, Martin Kelly and Nathan Ecclestone and now David N'gog have ALL had a chance in our first team and come through from our Academy or reserves; They may not all be GREAT players but they ARE from our Academy/Reserve sides; all of them - Unlike Babel which the fool I'm replying to forgets TWO things about;
1:) He was BOUGHT in 2007 for ELEVEN million.
2:) He's had PLENTY of chances including nearly the whole of the 2007/2008 and a lot of 2008/2009 seasons but like many young players; He suddenly seems to think he's 'made it', stops working hard/loses his 'spark' and talks more in the media than on the pitch. THAT is why Rafa's not picking him regularly - He has PLENTY of talent but just can't be arsed to use it Except where he has a point to prove ala Lyon - IF LFC need to play as they do against United in EVERY game, then Babel NEEDS to play like he did in Lyon EVERY game before a manager like Rafa' picks him regularly. Can he improve enough? We shall see......................
Oh yes, and regarding arguments about Rafa' buying players/improving them - Well firstly, it's a BIT hard to pick and choose GOOD players (who cost LOTS of cash) when you're told to A:) sell off your backup squad to afford them or B:) BANNED from buying your primary targets due to lack of funds - BOTH of which has happened to Rafa' in the not to distant past in the transfer market.
Yes, he's bought the likes of Voronin, Riera, Benayoun (whose a brilliant player now anyway), Skrtel, Crouch and Sissoko amongst others but that's mainly because he was denied the funds to buy his REAL targets which included players like Silva, Villa, Vidic, Simao, Tevez and Barry (who Rafa himself said was meant to play ALONGSIDE Alonso - NOT instead of him) When you look thus at his REAL targets instead of what he got (second and sometimes third choice in the case of Kyrgiakos) I think his eye for talent is obvious.
And it's an eye for talent that becomes even CLEARER when you look at the players he DID get and either developed or groomed into stars - His 'big' buys/best players if you will (and even some slightly below that level show how well he can spot talent); Players like Reina, Alonso, Torres, Crouch (who he developed into a record England goalscorer for the national team - our national sides ONLY reliable source of goals other than Rooney),Garcia, Kuyt, Agger, Pongolle (bought by his predecessor but developed by him), Your own former hammer Mascherano, Finnan, Sissoko, Gerrard himself (whose become FAR deadlier going forward), Carragher (whose he's developed from Houllier's fullback into a centre back) and more recently Agger, Skrtel and it looks like N'gog (whose improving by the game and in our last three Home games has set up 1 goal and scored twice).
Now, the above are ALL players he's either bought big, bought unknown/little known, brought from our reserves OR inherited and in all cases in which he has improved beyond all recognition until they can command fees like the 30 million recieved for Alonso or the 36 million spoken of for Masch'. In short all of whom, he's helped turn into if not World Class stars then certainly top-class/International level ones.
You don't believe me about Rafa's improvements to his players? Then think back to 2007 and England's doomed Euro 2008 campaign - Remember the clamour for Carragher (a jobbing centre back and traitor according to certain areas of the press - a 'coward' according to others for the twin crimes of putting his family first after being f*cked around by the England manager {and I use that term loosely for Steve Mcdonut} once to often AND the unforgivable sin of (shock, gasp) MISSING a penalty at the World Cup - Boo!!! Can't have that can we? I know, He's Liverpool, let's crucify him - Only Jamie wouldn't have it and quit England that summer - he was the wrong side of 30 anyway (funny, but I don't seem to remember Paul Scholes getting that level of abuse on HIS retirement from England in 2004 and he's refused at LEAST 3 times to come back).
Anyway - we could of done with Carragher's nous, determination and defensive ability v Croatia that awful night in November 2007 no? We might even (heaven forbid for we'd prob' STILL have Mcuseless at the helm) have qualified for Euro 2008 and all would be forgiven but think of this - The shouting and clamour was for Jamie to play as a CENTRE-BACK; Do you REALLY think that would of occurred say 8 years ago or so when he played FULL-BACK under Houllier? Don't make me laugh - of course not. And just WHO transformed him into this international level centre back - None other than Benitez that's who (and before anyone says he's no good - he got us to the CL final that season with his defending so he can't be THAT bad can he?).
Finally, please take the case of one Stephen Gerrard - formerly a (VERY) indisciplined) central midfielder who charged all over the place like Roadrunner in attempts to 'command' games under Houllier - He has under Benitez developed into one of the foremost scoring forces (and one half of one of THE truly deadly partnerships with Torres) in the English Premier League and thus Europe; He knows when, where and HOW to attack now and regularly breaks the 15/18 goal a season barrier (even 20 odd sometimes) whereas back as that undisciplined midfielder he rarely got even 10 a season;
Most importantly of all, he's one of the VERY few English players who knows HOW to play in 'the hole' where continental sides do so much damage and in view of that and the way he can drift all over the pitch and do such massive damage is also well on the way to forming a similar telepathy with the nation's other great Scouse footballer - Wayne Rooney under the direction of one of the few managers I see as Rafa's superior in Don Fabio Capello - England Manager who using Rooney and Gerrard as a template (and to a lesser extent Lampard and Crouch) has turned England into a scoring force reborn. But just WHO taught Gerrard to play like this in the first place as he showed LITTLE sign of it back in 2004 when Benitez came did he? Yep, that's right, Rafa' again.
So far from being unable to improve players - I think in Gerrard's case, the England team owe Mr Benitez a debt of thanks for helping modernise our attack in the way he has 'updated' Gerrard's abilities and just think IF Mcawful had been just a LITTLE more tactful with Carragher (i.e. NOT saying he'll play at centre back and then shoving him out to full-back/midfield/anywhere but full-back at every chance) then maybe, just maybe we'd have qualified for Euro 2008 and Mcabysmal MIGHT just have kept his jo.............
Actually, no DON'T think of that, it's to awful a thought to contemplate - Croatia did us the biggest favour imaginable by knocking us out at Wembley 2 years back as they took our complacency and old-fashioned arrogance with them forever. Anyway, I think Carragher coming back COULD of stopped that elimination happening as Rafa's turned him into an excellent centre half and he certainly wasn't that when Rafa' came here - far from it actually.
As to LFC's more recent acquisitions; Who knows but should Aquilani fulfil his potential AND Babel wake up and work to fulfil his - we may even add 2 more names to that list before long? We shall see - yes Rafa's had his failures (like Bellamy, Morientes, Kromkamp, Kewell, Gonzalez and Nunez to name but 5) but then what manager doesn't? I could name equally large lists of failures for Alec Ferguson, Arsene Wenger and whichever manager is at Chelsea this particular month if you like. But because it's Liverpool - people seem to notice far more no?
I think looking at the above though - the players he's bought, inherited etc AND improved out of all recognition AND the players he WANTED to buy but couldn't - having to settle for second/third best etc Along with all he's done for Liverpool in the league, FA Cup and Europe in his time here whilst hamstrung (having to sell to buy OR to constantly trim his squad/accept second best and NEVER coming close to Chelsea/Man U style funding) then it's clear that Rafa's not so much a manager as a miracle worker and to accuse him of 'lacking an eye for talent'/'being unable to develop young players'/wasting money under the CONDITIONS he's worked under (i.e. by ignoring said conditions) is not just wrong and stupid, but also pathetic.
Rafa's a World Class Manager,and IF Liverpool DO ever get the same type of funding that certain teams enjoy during his tenure then this blog (which seems to enjoy criticising him) will lose one of the reasons for it's existence as he'll clear up EVERYTHING in the trophy stakes for years...............
Anonymous 06:03, :27, :31
First of all, I didn't insult you so have some respect you imbecilic delinquent. Did your mother not teach you any manners? The fact that you needed to insult, and the number of words you used for your flawed arguments clearly says something.
Andy Warhol once said "Don't pay any attention to what [critics] write about you. Just measure it in inches." You my disloyal friend have quite a few inches there. Although, I bet that's the first time anyone's said that about you. And so I must respond.
It is quite clear that you are delusional and psychotic. You seem to be showing the symptoms of the Newcastle fan syndrome in which their blind love for Shearer and Keegan as manager clouded their footballing judgement. You're doing the same with Benitez. When Benitez sings You'll Never Walk Alone with the crowd, you seem to forget anything wrong he's ever done. It is a shame he can fool you so easily....it's scary too. It seems that you're in bed with Benitez? You're not Sammy Lee are you?
As for Nani: You say I follow the media mantras but then you use the media to back your argument of Nani having a go in the press at Ferguson? You like contradicting yourself don't you? Nani has had more effect and has been given more of an opportunity at United than Babel has at Liverpool. This is a fact. Since signing in 2007, Babel has been a sub. Nani has started more games at Manchester United and has been given the chance to play more important roles.
Your argument on who Man Utd have brought through recently compared to Liverpool is quite pathetic. In fact, it was quite shocking you'd even consider using such a baseless argument. Where are Liverpool's equivalent of Welbeck, Gibson, Da Silva twins, Evans, Fletcher, Macheda? You listed Insua, Spearing, Kelly, Ecclestone and N'gog. Please, don't make me laugh. There is no comparison. Spearing will be a class player, I admit, but not whilst Benitez is there. Saying that they have been given the same chances as Ferguson has given his fledglings mentioned above, is quite blatantly incorrect. You know this. And I nearly fell of my chair when you said "We've brought through Stephen Warnock [and] Neil Mellor". How you can begin to compare them two (your search just found two by the way) with what Man Utd and Arsenal have brought through, I do not know. And by the way, they were English and sold off weren't they? Another contradiction of the argument you used against Wenger
As for Arsenal; if you think Aaron Ramsey is going to get loaned out then you have no clue about what a good footballer looks like. The guy will be better than Fabregas. Wenger will shift Fabregas off to Barcelona for £40m profit in a couple of years and have a direct top-class replacement in Ramsey...........
........Your best statement was that Benitez has developed Gerrard. Aaaahahahaha! Boy! Your really are searching with that one. What you should have said is Gerrard has kept Benitez in a job. He used to play Gerrard on the left, that's how good a manger Benitez is. How on earth did he develop Crouch into a record English goal scorer? He never even played him regularly, EVEN when he had Liverpool's best strike rate. It's why Crouch left.
As for Benitez being denied funds; since 2005, Benitez's net spend amounts to £88m. Ferguson's is £6m and Wenger's is a minus £28m (i.e profit). Has he got a squad of high quality players for all that money? No, because he doesn't know how to buy. £20m on 29 year old Robbie Keane? Nice! Ok, he got mugged but what does he do? Leaves him on the bench. Not only that, he sells him back for £8m.
And another of your contradictions: up there you wrote to HF "half our squad/ backup (like Hyppia, Arbeloa and Alonso) has gone and been replaced by either dross or injuries". That's precisely my argument, Benitez buys dross. The only reasons he was denied funds to buy his 'real' targets was because the owners could not trust him as his buying record quite clearly proves, he hasn't a clue what he's doing most of the time. Everybody dreams. If Benitez dreams of Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Henry, Messi and then says these are my real targets but I don't have the funds to buy them, this does not mean he is a good manager. I can say that too, does that make me a good manager? You're making Benitez a good manager based on hypothetical situations.
You then say "I think his eye for talent is obvious". Josemi 2m, Garcia 6m, Morientes 6m, Paletta 2m, Pennant 7m, Leto 2m, Leiva 5m, Babel 11m, Skrtel 6.5m, Dossena 7m, Cavalieri 3.5m, Keane 20m, Aquilani 17m. Plus, cheap trash like Nunez, Gonzalez, Arbeloa, El Zhar, Insua, N'Gog, Kyrgiakos and many more. What eye for talent? In fact, in his time at Liverpool, as a whole, he's let better players go. He sold Alonso and bought a injured and unproven Aquilani. Excellent decision I must say!
And just to add, I offered some advice on what Liverpool could do in going for Hodgson. I said it cos I care about football. I want an exciting Championship race. But this point went right over your big head didn't it. The red mist (no pun) has clouded your judgement.
If you truly believe the trash you have written above, then you must have done one hell of a job convincing yourself. You quite clearly are in need of help. I wish you the best of luck in the future you twisted, angry, wife-beater. I think I've given you enough of my time. All the best in the Champions League.
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