If, as I suspect, this Daily Star story about Avram Grant refusing to work on Yom Kippur proves to be anything but kosher, I reckon the paper should be charged with racism. Given the Jewish Sabbath is traditionally a Saturday, I find it very hard to believe that Avram stands on religious ceremony when it comes to football. This reads to me like a story fabricated because Avram is Jewish.
If that is the case, then this takes gutter press journalism to a record low level. I have read some polemic anti Semitic views on the boards because of this story and that is frankly unacceptable, especially if there is no substance in this story. If untrue, Sullivan and Gold should ban journalists from the Star from the Boleyn. There are enough racists amongst our fan base without this sort of provocation!
47 comments:
HF what is it with you and racism. you have got it on the brain ffs. you need help mate. ps are you a foreigner or something. because you talk like one.
Fingers crossed Spector has converted to Judaism
HF where i live i have black people living across the street. my two boys age 12 and 14 play football in the street and sometimes accidentally hit their car with the ball for which is wrong i know. but they come out screaming racist racist even low my two boys have never ever said a racist remark to them and never would. the reason they shout out racist is because my two buys are white. so isn't that some kind of racism to call my boys racist just because their white. and just for the record. my boys are well behaved and always apologies when they have hit their car. which aint very often. but that dont matter to them they just keep screaming racist. ps you can see why people are getting pisst off cant yer. racism works both ways mate. but some how it doesn't seem that way.
and the reason i told you that HF is because with you going on about racism all the time. you seem to think only white people are racist. well that is not true. but by what you keep saying. you seem to think it is.
1818, why on earth are you allowing your children to play football in the road? And why can't you understand how unacceptable it is to kick a ball against a car? What are you doing as a parent to stop it and explain why it is unacceptable? And how do you KNOW that your children have NEVER used a racist insult towards these neighbours? Or, indeed, what sort of abuse they have suffered from others? It sounds to me as if your children need to be told NEVER to kick a ball in the vacinity of your neighbour's car.
1748, Avram has not said that he will not work on the day of the Stoke game. If The Star has made this up, it is provoking hatred of Avram BECAUSE he is Jewish. That is racist in my book!
Of course I don't think that mate. How could anybody believe that in an age of Muslim Fundamentalism and when Jews persecute Palastinians based on their nationality and religion? There is wrong on all sides. But minorities suffer the most and two wrongs do not make a right. I hope your lads are always respectful - but honestly not kicking the ball against the car has to be the start point surely?
HF i know my children would never say anything racist. because if they did they know they would get a smack around the ear. also none of my family are racist so why would they say racist remarks. also i let my kids play in the street so my wife can keep a eye on them why im at work. i mean i cant keep them locked up all day in doors their 12 and 14 ffs. but when we have time we take them to the park and stuff.
and also HF ive had a football smacked against my car loads of times. but kids are kids they do stupid things. im not saying its right. but no it doesn't bother me really. its good seeing keeds enjoying themselves and having a good time. thats how it should be for kids. as long as their not hurting anyone. but accidents do happen sometimes. its not like my two boys kick the ball at people's cars on purpose.
I always played football in the road and hit cars, it's called being a teenager! I suppose if the days do conflict then they've put two and two together. It's not particularly racist it's just journalism and 'scandal'.
Hammers, I was half expecting your ill advised and oft off the mark sense of humour to come out to play dealing with this one, but it didn't. For once, well played.
Speaking as someone of the Kosher persuasion I thought I'd set you straight on a couple of points:
1. Yes the Sabbath (not just the Jewish one, but the only sabbath) actually lasts from sunset to sunset Friday to Saturday, with some room for manoeuvre(!). Interestingly, it was the Pope that decided there should be a different Sabbath held on a Sunday for his lot (hence going against the word of God, the Pope being the anti-christ, etc and so...) Religion has a wonderful sense of consistency.
2. In the Jewish world, the Sabbath is considered about as holy as you gentiles now consider a Sunday to be. i.e. it's only the serious/fanatical types that observe it strictly. (During the Sabbath it is also forbidden to request anything or anyone to work for you. If you visit Israel, most hotels will have 2 sets of lifts. One normal one, and one preprogrammed to stop at every other floor during the Sabbath so they can still be used without you requesting it to do work for you by pushing a button. Burglary rates are at their highest in Golders Green on a Friday night as they know the locals won't lift the phone and ask the police to do any work for at least another day.)
3. Yom Kippur is quite a different matter to a Jew. It is considered to be the most holy day, the day of atonement. Quite similar to Islam's Ramadan (accept much shorter - couldn't leave all that chopped liver alone for more than a day).
So there may in fact be some truth in what the Star is reporting. I don't know what they say as I would not grace that rag with my presence.
HF all you seem to do all the time is put my great club (west ham united) and our great fans down all the time. yes west ham may have a few racist. but doesn't every other club. you can see why a lot of west ham fans on here dont like you very much tbh.
Let them go to the park for pity's sake!
1912, I've been to Israel and was stranded at Messada in the middle of the desert because the bloody buses stopped running on the Friday evening! They took the Sabbath pretty seriously then! (1988)
TIS, times have changed. There's more cars! I played football in the road because there was space to do so!
17.48 go **** urself and stop being a total cnut
HF the closest park to where i live is about an half hour walk crossing over god knows how many maine roads. me and my wife maybe a little over protective but thats the way we are. especially when you here that some kids been stabbed or have been mugged in your local papers. maybe when their a bit older then they can go to the park. but ontil then. they will be playing in the street where me and my wife can see them.
i knew rooney would score for england today. hes scored a lot away from home lately. ha ha ha
Calm down Fred! Crikey, you were calling me that not so long ago!
How about talking to these neighbours then? Might help.
racism is not a charge in itself, it would have to be something like incitement . you could only sue for libel not really drag em down the station
Having just wasted five seconds of my life reading the report from the Daily Star about Avram, I suggest you go and see a shrink. You have an obsession with racism that borders on the fanatical and people like yourself are usually the biggest racist. There is nothing offensive or racist in the report at all.
I don't often agree with you on many things, but I cetainly do on this point. I've witnessed racism at a few West Ham games and it sickens me to the stomach, and indeed I've had to bite my tongue on many occasions when it's been aimed at my fellow countrymen. It really surprises me how ignorant some of the contributors are on here, especially when I usually tend to agree with them on football issues. Yes, the 'racism card' does get abused sometimes, but it cannot be ignored just because of this.
For once you have my full support.
that's so rich coming from you HF = at least half your posts are guilty of the very same thing - if you printed the stuff that you post on here you would be skint from all the litigation and also serving a long stretch to boot!
Thanks Welsh Hammer, I have your support but what about your sheep mate? Sorry! Self parody mate, given all the allegations that I am racist! Are you still in Wales or have you moved to London? And how comes you support West Ham?
0727, you don't see anything racist IF the article is a fabrication? You aren't very bright are you?
There's nothing remotely racist about the article. They're simply stating that he may or may not choose to miss a game because of his religious beliefs. They don't judge or criticise him for it.
You've criticised Lampard for 'choosing' to miss England games to have surgery. Just because they have different reasons does it make it any different? They both make their choices and we as fans have to accept them.
It's oversensitive positive discriminators like yourself that stir up trouble where it doesn't originally exist by over analysing these situations and twisting them in to something that they're not.
Your article was completely needless as was the original article in the paper about Grant.
Would I get Christmas Day off of work if I were a Christian working in Israel or Saudi Arabia?
How can the article be fabrication? It doesn't actually state any actual facts. It doesn't say that he's definitely going to, or even thinking about missing the game.
All it says is that game clashes with a religious holiday that he may want to recognise.
What's the big deal???
HF i was on here a few weeks back when you were talking about racism then. and i remember someone saying that the BNP are getting bigger and you said they were tiny. well it pains me to say this but you were wrong very wrong im afraid. i know someone who does the box count for the elections. and he told me that the BNP have a hell of a lot more fans then people think. he said that a lot of people who like the BNP vote for the conservative to stop labour getting in because the BNP aint got much chance of winning so they think. but if the people who like the BNP stoped voting for the conservative. then the BNP could became very very big. and it could happen so he thinks. it pained me to write this but its very true im afraid.
I honestly am staggered by the blinkered and stupid attitude of some people. Why was the article written? Because Grant is Jewish. That is the only reason that there is the possibility of a story. So, using this as a start point, with no evidence whatsoever that this is what Grant is intending, an article is written suggesting that Grant may miss a key game becuase of a religious holiday. So, the implication is that because he is a Jew, he may let West Ham down in what could be a 6 point relegation decider.
The reaction on the West Ham boards proves that the article is racist, because idiots have turned on Grant and used antisemitic language in their posts. Look at the reply at 1824. Here is a straight comparison based on religions, although this berk seems to think that the Saudis are Jews!
1931, where was that box count? The truth is, in fact, the reverse. The majority of votes cast for the BNP are because they stand no chance of forming a government. It is a protest vote designed to send a message to the main parties, not a vote for the BNP itself. If people thought the BNP might actually win, they wouldn't vote for them in a million years.
That's not to say that we don't have a lot of racists in our society, We do. But wanting to limit, reduce or even stop immigration does not come close to supporting a policy of enforced relocation and repatriation based on the colour of somebody's skin. The vast majority of people, even white van drivers in Basildon, would be filled with revulsion after spending an hour or two in the company of the evil people who run the party. That's why I favour giving them a platform. The more people hear what these idiots have to say, and how they say it, the less credible they become.
HF the BNP are getting bigger and muppets like you dont like it. ha ha ha ha ha. forever BNP and WHUFC
Bigger, fatter, balder, thicker - but more popular? Only amongst the mentally retarded.
HF when the BNP takes over england in the next few years. maybe you will be the first one they kick out. well lets hope so.
If the BNP took over in Britain, I wouldn't need kicking out. I would leave with all the nurses, doctors, teachers, university professors, captains of industry, sportsmen...
Calling any BNP on these boards:
We've enough of our own leeches in this country, bleeding our resources dry, without using the age old excuse of blaming the foreigners/blacks/Jews/Muslims/Eastern Europeans (delete according to your own racial prejudice) for our own problems.
Read your history books, get an education and wise up. You make me ashamed to be a white British WHU supporter.
HF the only reason some people dont like the BNP is because of all the crap and lies people say about them. they are not racist. they are realists. wake up and smell the coffee HF
In case you hadn't noticed all the nurses, doctors, teachers, university professors, captains of industry, sportsmen have already left. Well the good ones have anyway. What we are left with is........foreigners
HF - How do you know that the so called 'berk' at 18.24 thinks that Saudis are Jews? That's just an assumption that you're making.
I read it as the poster assuming that YOU would realise that he's making a religious comparison against Muslim AND Jewish recognition or tolerance of Christian holidays in either Israel or Saudi. Perhaps YOU'RE the berk for making such a ridiculous assumption about him?
Such assumptions and insults are exactly how debates such as this descend in to aggression as opposed to discussion. You take the morale high ground on racism but are part of the problem with your unneccesary and insulting vitriol.
The poster's question is a fair and relevant comparison given the topic. It's not racist but as usual you've failed to answer or address a question that you'd rather avoid by insulting him instead.
Try practicing what you preach (tolerance) before you go tarring everyone with your 'racist' brush. These are very sensitive issues and you clearly don't have the sensitivity to deal with them.
HF quote... 'even white van drivers in Basildon'.
That's a great way to argue your point in a debate about racism. Use a blatant stereotype.
HF, do you really not see how people like you are also a big part of the problem???
Your defence of ethnic minorities are noble and probably well intended (if not a little unnecessary and patronising) but insinuating that white van drivers from Basildon generally have issues with race follows the same ridiculous stereotypes that idiots like the BNP use to make their arguments.
By using such a statement you're validating their approach to judging people based on demographics.
Can't believe it, the Guardian are racists as well now. They're running the same story about Grant based purely on speculation and totally without any substantiating quote or facts.
0720 - a typical BNP response. Absurd and disgusting. Go down to A&E at 2.30 am and watch doctors and nurses battling to save the lives of people. They are incredibly dedicated and do a job that you and I would run a mile from. Idiots like you are why the BNP will never be anything other than a fringe party. People llike me don't need to put up a counter argument, all we have to do is give people like you a platform!
How I wish you had the courage of your convictions! If only you were prepared to say this in a hospital when in need of care! The doctors and nurses would still treat you, I'm sure, but I suspect certain invasive investigations might actually accompany the required medication. And boy woulld you deserve it!
White van drivers of Basildon unite against stereotyping and oppression! Remove the White Van Man feature from The Sun immediately! Strike out the slur that the White Van Men of Basildon all think and act the same! Shame on those who claim this! Shame on you! Even now, White Van men of Basildon are facing persecution on the streets of Basildon because of the colours of their vans. Even now they are hiding their faces behind copies of the Daily Sport to avoid recognition. Even now they are wearing their working overalls like the Star of David, a maliciously imposed insignia designed to set them apart from the rest of society. How long will it be before White Van Men of Basildon are ordered to live in ghettos in Grays or moved to concentration camps on the Isle of Sheppy? Join the FWVMOBL - Free White Van Men of Basildon League now!
HF no point in worrying yourself because that wont help. no matter what you say or do HF the BNP will take over england oneday. and i cant wait. forever BNP forever WHUFC
I'm not worried because it will never happen. The BNP crashed and burned at the ballot box in Barking for God's sake!
it will happen. trust me.
Hilarious HF, not. So it's ok to stereotype 'white van drivers' as potential racists is it? Thanks for setting out the rules on discrimination for us.
You can joke about it all you like but you're just as ignorant and bigoted as the racists. Reverse or positive discrimation is just as damaging and incredibly naive.
Are the Guardian a racist paper too? They're running an identical story.
yeah the BNP would crash and burn in barking wouldn't it. have you seen barking HF its like bengal.
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