Adjusted ratings! Sears up to 7, Green down to 7 and Upson up to 7!
Saturday, 1 January 2011
West Ham 2 Wolves 0 - Ratings Correction!
Adjusted ratings! Sears up to 7, Green down to 7 and Upson up to 7!
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13 comments:
Yeh, you have a habit of getting things wrong first time around HF. But you never learn.
But I do admit it! I'm genuinely, genuinely shocked about the Suffism business mate, it wasn't meant to offend. I would have put my mortgage on you thinking it was a corruption of Islam. Surely it is borrowed from Hinduism and Buddhism, with an overhang from the seedbed Middle Eastern religions? I'm not trying to pprovoke here, it just seems, well, wrong on so many levels - like Kabbalah.
What you think Sufism is, is not what it actually is. They are very peaceful and saintly people who do not take hardline views and spend their time in worship.
You know my real name - even though you didn't have the balls to give me yours, despite me asking and you knowing what kind of person I am (I would never do wrong) - my first name is in fact the name of a great Sufi saint. So, there you go.
I'm not denying that they are peaceful. Saintly? Well, that depends on a belief in saints. The question arises, why do Sufis need to look beyond the Qur’an to achieve intimate knowledge of Allah? The Qur’an is regarded by Muslims as a miracle and the Qur’an itself makes this claim for itself, so to achieve Ma’rifa, Sufis should aspire to intimate knowledge of the Qur’an, for then they will become truly intimate in their knowledge of God. The key to unlocking true knowledge of Allah is not spiritualism but total knowledge and understanding of the Qur’an surely?
Ben Haim was MOM I thought and is the enforcer that West Ham haven't had in their back four for a long time.
Don't you mean Sears up to 8?
The word Koran is much easier to read and to write, so why don't you use it, your use of Qur’an smacks of pompousness?
Classical Dervish scholars have defined Sufism as "a science whose objective is the reparation of the heart and turning it away from all else but God." hence the spinning.
Sufism is considered by some Muslims to be outside the sphere of Islam.
I have watched a Sufi whirling dance performance that went on for some hours and for me I was left with the intense feeling of divine calm and peacefulness.
There are non-Islamic Sufi groups and I understand that there have been influences exercised by Sufism of Jewish texts, with precepts even prescribed with a Torah number!
I think you do mean to offend with view such as a "corruption of Islam" as you know what you do, and why you do it.
Why don't you have the balls to give Stani your real name?
The Sufi state of “intoxication” seemingly runs in direct contradiction to a fundamental message of the Qur’an, the need for moderation. The Qur’an obviously forbids sins such as fornication, gambling and wine drinking but also calls for the moderation of vengeance, preferring instead forgiveness, and defines generosity as being “ neither miserly or prodigal”. None of this is reconcilable with the state of intoxication to which Sufi’s aspire. Ecstasy and moderation do not sit comfortably side by side. Allah commends self control, moderation and social responsibility in the Qur’an and we can go back the Mir’aj for a metaphor for moderation and self control, when Muhammad is offered a choice between milk and wine. The Prophet chooses milk, accepting guidance and wisdom over intoxication and ecstasy.
In truth, the Sufi state of intoxication owes more to the old Arab culture of Jahiliyya, which gloried in extreme behaviour such as inebriation and womanizing, and which the Qur’an denounces. How can “intoxication” be a desirable state in a culture which forbids the drinking of alcohol, even if intoxication is intended to be on a spiritual level rather than because of an excess of alcohol?
You are right to see the links with other religions TO!, that's why I presumed Stani would hold no truck with the Sufi wing of Islam, but I was wrong. There are many, many Muslims who do reject Sufism however.
HF,
What do you mean look beyond the Quran? Can you show me where you got this information because that and all the intoxication stuff just isn't true. I'm not a Sufi myself, neither do I do the specific things they do but they are a part of Islam. Try this BBC link, it's ok:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/subdivisions/sufism_1.shtml
And Turds is right, many non-Muslims do practice Sufism and some Muslims don't agree with it. But I accept them as Muslims just like I accept Shias as Muslims for example. My view of Islam is that Islam is a very understanding, compassionate and inclusive faith. This understanding, compassion and inclusiveness should be with both other faiths and within Islam itself. That's why it is so simple to become a Muslim.
"Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you:" Quran 3:64
And you should witness that Dervish whirling sometime too HF. It makes you wonder how they don't collapse from dizziness afterwards! :)
As for similarities and influences within religion; Judaism, Christianity and Islam are progressive steps. As the term 'people of the book' above indicates.
Jahiliyya is basically 'a time of ignorance'. Sufism is the very opposite to that. They spend most their living moments in remembrance, study and worship of God.
And what do you mean by intoxication HF? If it's what I think you mean then it's not intoxication in the literal sense. It's probably used to express the devotion to God. It does not mean intoxication in the sense they're found on the curb in the middle of the night in a pool of their own vomit :) Plus, if there was one intoxication that God would allow, surely it would be in the worship of Him? There is no moderation in worshipping Him.
Turds,
He doesn't give me his name because he thinks I'm an extremist and will find him and put a stick of dynamite up his behind!
But that's cool. I trusted him, but he doesn't trust me. I win.
Stani, you have reopened the debate. I don't mean to offend but I feel I should respond to your point. Sufism unquestionably has its roots in the same soil from which Islam grew and has played an important role in broadening the geographic spread and appeal of Islam. Perhaps it is because of both its antiquity and to it being on the frontier of the faith, with Sufis often fulfilling the equivalent role of Christian missionaries, that Sufism has developed into an impure form of Islam. Perhaps the need to compromise in order to convert the uninitiated has led to cross fertilisation from other religions. If so, perhaps it is little wonder that Sufism appears like a fusion of faiths rather than a pure form of Islam.
But then that assumes that Islam is, of itself, any different, which a critic might argue it is not. Some may argue that much of the Qur’an is drawn from the Christian Bible, the Jewish Torah and the traditions of Arabic poetry (influenced by Zoroastrianism) so, in a way, Islam is itself a fusion of other faiths and sources, being the youngest of the three great monotheist religions and, in a way, a distillation and dilution of the others, some might claim. If we accept this position, therefore, then Sufism can be perceived as typical rather than atypical of a faith that has cherry-picked pragmatically from other religions, selecting and rejecting based upon what suited at the time.
Collect as many Muslims together in a room as you like and none will come up with a definition of Islam as the great pick and mix religion, but the tolerance and, indeed, popularity of Sufism beneath the Islamic umbrella, even when it challenges the five pillars themselves, appears to suggest that this is the case. If Sufism is necessary to spread the faith and has the power to stimulate the masses through theatrical spiritualism rather than through erudite interrogation of the Qur’an, then so be it! However, when Al-Hallaj, a famous Sufi claims, “I am the Truth”, you have to wonder at the tolerance of a religion that executes the man but stops short of disassociating itself from the branch of the religion he represents. As the Fatiha , the opening sura of the Qur’an states, “In the name of Allah, The Merciful, The Compassionate...You only do we serve; to you only do we turn for help”. If that is the case, how can the walis and shaykhs of Sufism be accommodated in good faith, other than as a populist device, a ploy to engage the illiterate in a faith which otherwise might appear too esoteric and lacking in the drama of other competing religions?
If you're basically saying are there bad Sufis? Then yes, there are. It's a form of Shirk (i and r are pronounced separately and not as one sound as in 'bird') when they raise themselves above what they are, which is human.
If Al-Hallaj claims he is God, then that is Shirk, the worst of all sins.
We see religious people go too far sometimes HF and claim divinity (e.g David Koresh). Islam is very strict on this matter "there is no God but God". The most strictest of all the other religions.
I wouldnt call Sufism an impure form though of Islam though...or even a form of Islam. More a feature. There are some good quotes on that BBC site.
Islam has always existed. In the past it has bee called by different names. There has always been one common...one true faith because there has always been one true God. Hence the quote of come to common terms. Watch the first couple of minutes of this video (sorry) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv6gzx6wlfo and see what the Rabbi says.
I gotta go...off to watch MOTD2...and have some curry and chapati :)
You even forgot the exclamation mark that time. Get your own name and join the debate instead of trying to steal identities off others for silly, snidy remarks. Get a life mate. As with this last attempt, I will simply delete your childish comments.
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