Sunday, 6 June 2010

Sullivan and the Fleecing of Gold

(This article has been submitted by Stani)

“Men still have to be governed by deception”…

…that's probably Sullivan’s favourite quote. Machiavelli once wrote “[the] one who deceives will always find those who allow themselves to be deceived”, and unfortunately, Sullivan knows that in fans of football clubs he is always able to find such an attribute.

If you thought Duxbury was a snake, well let me tell you that the randy boys are no angels. One thing Duxbury did not do is squeeze every penny out of the supporters at every opportunity. Whether it was because he just wasn’t shrewd enough doesn’t matter. G&S are mugging us off at every opportunity and where there is no opportunity to do so, they’re creating them. I have signed up for the club emails and there is not a week that goes by without some kind of email selling me something which is totally useless but is a way of G&S making money.

They could have easily bought our club out right. They could have easily invested much more. They have the capacity to do so but they have not. Why? Because they are not the fans that they may have you believe they are. They are treating our club like any other business….in fact, like their other businesses. But a football club is not like any other business. West Ham was not the only club they looked at before purchasing. They looked at both Portsmouth and Crystal Palace which is why they knew so much about them. They are treating our club purely like a business.

Let’s take the recent hunt for a manager as an example of their deception. When reports started to surface that they had offered it to Grant already, G&S thought ‘we can’t be seen to be making an appointment without even having drawn up a short-list or spoken/interviewed other candidates’. So they play their media game (which they have done from day one) and release other names to the media just to make it seem as they they’ve been looking. Who are these other managers that were interviewed? Were Allardyce, Holloway or Jones interviewed? Was there even an interview process? So why are they fooling us and making us believe there was?

As for the Hitzlsperger signing; the first signing would have been the one they were wanting to set the tone with and it says it all that ours is an average player on a free. He’s a decent player, but surely if they wanted to give us a taste of things to come, we would be seeing someone better arriving? Then there’s the over-selling of him to us on the official site. What was the need to do so? We are not stupid David. I hope Grant is strong enough to make demands as now that they have got their man in, they will have to support him.

So let’s not have this subconscious resignation to G&S and stay wary of their every move and utterance. I would love for G&S to prove me wrong. The one hope I hold is that Sullivan is simply too dumb to get away with his games and will be seen for what he is eventually. So let him weave his tangled web.


Anonymous said...

where did you get that picture of my bird lol

Anonymous said...

No mention of Mark Hughes who they tried to get and allegedly wanted a £40 million transfer budget. Grant is a good of a manager as we could get.

Football clubs are terrible business and what you're basically saying is if they're fans they should piss away all their money on the club with no hope of getting it back.

Dagenham Dave said...

Stan supporters like you are an embarrassment to the Club, if you don't want to buy a West Ham shirt or mug then fine, but they're trying to get as much revenue as they can to make the Club financially viable and sustainable.

It seems the majority of fans are happpy with the signing of an international player in his prime, especially one on a freebie.

Seems like you're spitting your dummy out because we didn't by Carlos Kickaball for £25 million.

Boo hoo

Another Dave said...

We're alll a little wary about everything to do with our club and that's understandable given the last ten years of constant problems. However, you, Stani, sound like a very very negative bitter man who, because you don't have the answers, make up your own stories.

Rejoice that the David's saved us - no other bugger actually had the money to do it.

Hammersfan said...

Stani mate, Sullivan may be many things by dumb isn't one of them. I wish I had a 40th of his wealth. I don't blame him for trying to milk the West Ham franchise; why shouldn't he? I've bought stuff from the West Ham shop this year for my son, and of course I got my mini season ticket on the back of a Sullivan and Gold innovation. I was a winner and the club was a winner too; what's the problem? You signed up for the emails; so what that they are hitting you with promotional offers? You don't have to buy do you? Every business does that. I hear every massage parlour in East London has sent a special offer package to the Boleyn to greet Avram.

You may well be right in the long run and only a fool would trust them blindly. My worry centres on the sale of the ground. But for now, let's judge them day by day. We stayed up. They bought McCarthy at Zola's request. They sacked Zola which no matter what you say, had to happen. Now they have made the first signing and he is a better prospect than many of us were expecting. Mostly ticks so far from my point of view!

Mark Phillips said...

You do realise that your post is libelous and defamatory? I would be very careful if I were you. Making comments about their running of the club as made public through their statements is one thing, but resorted to those kind of lose remarks without evidence and clearly in a way that is demeaning on a public forum opens you to prosecution. Oh, and your comments are naive beyond question, both about the running of a football club and about business principles!

Hammersfan said...

Mark, I see no issues here. Stani accuses G&S of being hard nosed businessmen. They would probably see that as a compliment.

UKIT said...

Yeah, I'm a bit lost on the point of this Blog post.

I think you're living in cockoo land to be honest.

All organisations are based on generating profit, including charities, they have to in order to acheive what they need to.

Football clubs have to make a profit to exist. The question is "are the execs scooping off the profit without investing profits back into the club?"

As for why G&S haven't sunk their life savings into West Ham, then remember that every football club has every chance of going bust, so any money you have invest into it, you are risking losing it.

So how many fans willing to remortgage their house and buy a share of the club. yep thought so not many!

I don't particular like G&S, but to pick at them for being chairman is a bit of a weak argument.

Not a great post this one.

Anonymous said...

Stani,as always its about choices and opinions.
I also elected to receive my "personal" messages from the chairmen.They do make me smile with their paragraphs of schmooze followed by the kicker at the bottom imploring me to buy a cheap top or not to forget to renew my long standing Season Ticket.
My opinion is that this is no longer the club I have supported since the early 60's.
As Nick Hornby said in Fever Pitch, the only constant at a Football club are the fans.
I love the West Ham fans.
My choice is that my £800 will be staying in my bank this summer.
Its very sad,

John V P

T.I.S said...

Stani maybe you should wait a while. It's a comment I hate being said to me, but i notice that your anger is venting daily when the chairmen haven't done much. I couldn't have a more opposed opinion to yours if I tried, and I believe (without much knowledge of historic chairmen) that they could leave our club in the best shape it has ever been in. We understand your anger, and if in a years time you are right I won't blame you for boasting more than HF, but i fear you may regret your comments. Sorry

Anonymous said...

i love the daves they are real hammers heros

Anonymous said...

Cant wait for the season to start. Got me season ticket sorted in the trev lower bring it on.

Anonymous said...

TGGC 2010 Blog Survey - Ian Dales survey makes interesting reading - I bet yours would be more so - 1,000 people entered their details - wow!

Hammersfan said...

What an absolutely pointless survey that is! Dale should ask some more searching questions. What percentage voted for the BNP? Who would never vote for Carlton Cole as Hammer of the Year because of the colour of his skin? How many think homosexuality is disgusting?

Anonymous said...

Why would HF need to do a survey?

He always has the answer to everything and constantly tells us how fantastic he has been at predicting things. Hence, he would already know the outcome before the few posters he has here lodge their answers.

Hammersfan said...

Of course I do! Glad you acknowledge my unrivalled brilliance!

Anonymous said...

You certainly are unrivalled sir, though few would agree it is for your brilliance.

Hammersfan said...

Look what happened to Galileo!

Anonymous said...

Quoted in a Queen song. Unlikely you'll get the same honour now.

Hammersfan said...

That too!

Anonymous said...

Oh I don't know - it would be fun to see how many actual posters you do or don't have - obviously we know how many "hits" you get because you don't stop banging on about it - but actual readers now that would be interesting - do you reckon you'd get more or less than a 1,000 people entering?

You could actually make your own questions HF - so we could have the BNP question, the Homo question and I am sure you'll be keen to add a least one question about Jews. I for one would love to take part in the first TGGC 2010 survey.

It's stuff like this that gives kudos to blog pages and builds awareness and ultimately loyal followers, remember an old dog should never be too old to learn new tricks and you have to be honest, WHTID does have a rather large fan base.

Stani Army said...

Mark Phillips,
You do realise that it is not? Libel laws do not apply to blogs and forums as they do to newspapers for example. The casual conversational nature of blogs and forums means that they are very different from newspaper articles. Blogs/forums may be nearer to slander but in English law it is harder to win damages for slander than for libel. Plus, what are they going to sue me for? I'm just a regular guy who has no money. It wouldn't be a wise move to sue a fan of your own club would it? Imagine the bad publicity that's going to get them.

You say my comments are naive but with the audience waiting in anticipation for you to tell us exactly how they are, you stop?

In fact, if you take a look at your comment in it's entirety; you haven't really added to the discussion.

*****OFFER! Buy 5 shirts and get your free West Ham dildo and allow us to do you in more ways than one!!!******

Yes, I'm lost that you're lost mate. My fear is that you will carry on being lost and David will find you. Although it does seem as if he has got to you already.

I did not say organisations should not make profit. I did not say football clubs should exist without making profit. Who are you arguing with? There is a difference between making a profit and mugging people off.

Us re-mortgaging your house to buy a share of the club is a far greater risk and investment then if the Davids had bought 100% of our club. Why are you comparing the two?

Not a great post? It drew out an opinion from you and tried to make you think so it couldn't have been that bad. Surely that's a difficult thing to do at the best of times.

*****Click HERE to have your child named 'David' for just £200. Special discounts for twins.....and girls******

John V P,
Good on you mate and I support you in your stance in difficult circumstances. I'm gland I'm not the only one who notices that in the emails.

No mate, my problem is with what and how they are doing what they are doing and not that they aren't doing anything. They can be more honest with us instead of playing tricks. Dux didn't tell us anything but these two are telling us things that are not necessarily true.

I think angry is a bit too strong a word. When you're angry, you can't think straight so I try not to get angry. And believe me, if I am right, I certainly will not be boasting because I know that not only will our club be in a bad situation, but also that far too many of my fellow West Ham fans would have been caught out by the porn barons. I would have nothing to be happy about. And if I'm proved wrong then it's all good right?

Anonymous 1017,
Yep, that's the mentality that got Curbishley in as manager and look what he did.

Stani Army said...

Anonymous 1747,
And where exactly am I "basically" saying that? What I am basically saying is that there is no need for them to deceive the fans and treat our club like a cash-cow. Read it again and see if you can pick up a hint of that anywhere, like on every line.

*****Click HERE to sign up to have your name read out by our stadium announcer for just £50!!! (some names may be read out on non-match days)******

Dagenham Dave!
Embarrassment to the club? Just because I don't feel comfortable having the wool pulled over my eyes I'm an embarrassment? And there's a difference between wanting to buy something from the club and having something shoved down your throat. If you cannot understand this then you are simply there for the taking.

If they're trying to make the club financially viable and sustainable why didn't they just do that outright? They could have easily.

I've got no problems with Hitzlsperger. They should not be throwing names like Nistelrooy, Henry and Beckham out if they're going to be signing players like Hitzlsperger. And he is not a current international.

Did I even mention Tevez? What was you reading?

*****OFFER! Have our names tattooed on your forehead for just £99.99. Operators are ready to take your money...sorry, calls******

Another Dave!
Comments from two Daves and one after the other? It would have been uncanny had Karren followed eh?

I'm not even certain I want to take you on in this debate as I'm feeling like I'll be on the end of a beating. Nevertheless I'll give it a shot.

I'm negative and bitter?! Did you read that HF? And you're saying I make things up Dave?

No other bugger had the money to do it? Two did in fact and they would have bought the whole club.

Anyone could have made it in the business he has when that opportunity came around for him. Now he has people around him to take care of things. Trust me, he's not the brightest. Have you not heard him talk HF?

Like I said there is nothing wrong with buying something you want when it is on a good deal, that's not my argument.

Also, what do you think the real reason is that they (G,S&B) always stick together? Because they're dodgy.

Hammersfan said...

2049, Dale's site gets lots of hits I accept but not because of what Dale or Chandos write. It is bland and humourless stuff, like the survey. As I've said before, WHTID has its merits because it is more like a chat forum these days.

Hammersfan said...

Stani, libel laws would apply so don't overstep the mark please!

Stani Army said...

I know that they would HF but not in the same way. It was a High Court ruling.

Deane said...

Avram still doesn't have a work permit the brown volvo awaits with its engine ticking over

Anonymous said...

20:49 so no survey then? actually that's probably a very good call as I'm sure it would illustrate the shortcomings of this blog.... I knew you wouldn't do it - you have no bottle.

As for their "chat room" I thought that's what you wanted "I do not know how to convert this into a chat room but I would welcome contributions from others" you did say that didn't you? or was that Scott Tracey?

I don't agree regarding the WHTID there's a lot more football discussed over there.

Anonymous said...

Stani - I agree wholeheartedly with what you say..... it's the same old same old with these owners - they're not going to invest, they're out to stripe us up and squeeze every shekel out of us - and it's for profit plain and simple. I was gutted we didn't get the Malaysian Tony Fernandes a real West Ham man who wanted to buy the whole club and not just a part of it. If you remember they made an open offer to him to join them and he wanted no part of their "vision"

To be honest we're going to be the poor cousin of the London clubs once again, if anything I think we punch above our weight and perhaps the championship is where we belong - it'll certainly be less painful down there.

I don't believe they'll bring anyone decent to the club - they'll sell our best players which is what I think undermining Zola and ultimately the team was all about last season - trust me these boys know what they're doing, and I'm quite sure the redevelopment of the Boleyn features heavily in their long term plans.

TurdsOut! said...

Anonymous - I have to agree with your as painful as that is - same old same old - sounds about right - middle table mediocrity if we're very lucky - no decent signings - and nothing to get excited about, god I'm beginning to sound like HF - half glass empty and all that

Stani Army said...

Anonymous 0953
Very well put mate. I really feel sorry for people that can't see it. They did the same thing with Brum and have now moved on because they cannot play the same game at the same club for long.

The only big thing about our club at the moment is it's fans. Because of this, we have potential as a club. This is the very thing that G&S are using but not to progress the club to its full potential unfortunately, but to take advantage and line their pockets.

Fernandes was my choice too. He is an intelligent business man with a lot of links and know-how behind him as well as a true fan. He saw them for exactly who they are which is why he did not invest with them. The critics of our view can argue all they want but they should ask themselves why a reputable guy like Fernandes stayed away after being invited to invest with G&S.

The Olympic move and redevelopment of the stadium land was the crown jewel in their master plan. It is why in one sense I hope we don't get to move to Stratford, but I fear it will be the only viable option for the stadium. G&S probably cannot believe how lucky they are.

Hammersfan said...

Oy Turds Out, my glass has been half full lately! After sacking in Zola and bringing in Grant and Hitlersburger, I'm feeling upbeat!

TurdsOut! said...

Stani - exploitation is their game... it's not had to make money from porn if you have no morals and the exploitation of football fans is probably easier than the exploitation of women, we're stuffed!

With respect HF seeing you upbeat only adds to my worries... it's unnatural.

Hammersfan said...

LOL Fair enough!

Stani Army said...

Very true Turds. Just don't know when I'll be able support my team relatively worry free i.e. only worry about what's happening on the pitch.

Anonymous said...

ha stani i think ur a complete joke

Stani Army said...