During the Turds era, I was regularly challenged about my unbridled criticism of our style of play by Curbishley fans. Their argument, that we should be happy to be in mid table, I felt, betrayed a certain lack of ambition but that was not the key point. My loathing of Curbishley was based on his betrayal of the club and John Lyall as a player, and his betrayal of everything the club stood for as a manager. Curbishley's team played in the style of Curbishley the player: it was mediocre stuff and a million miles away from our traditions of playing entertaining, attacking, intelligent football.
To be fair, when Turds departed, some warned, "Be careful what you wish for". Indeed, I was the named target of an article under that title written by Nixon of Org Green. The argument of the Turds Apologists ran, you may not have liked the style of play but look at the results: what would you prefer, tenth place employing the Upson Lump as the default attacking option, or playing pretty football and struggling? I opted for the pretty football!
So along came Zola!
Now I'm not going to go over the Zola ground again, unless I am provoked into doing so by comments to this article, but I will say it did not work out as we ALL hoped. We didn't just struggle, we were dire! He had to go in my eyes because the football was neither pretty, nor effective; it was just just pretty shit!
Where is this taking us? Well, I am a West Ham traditionalist. I have always said that I don't just support the team, I support what the team stands for, the values established or crystallised or embedded or clarified by Greenwood and Lyall. I hated Curbishley because he betrayed Greenwood and Lyall when both a player and a manager. I welcomed Zola because he appeared to be one of the angels, a Chelsea man it is true, but a Blue in the tradition of Osgood, Hudson and Cooke, all of whom would have graced the Claret and Blue under Greenwood.
But now we come to Grant. So far I have been hugely impressed but I am worried that, without restraining, he may go too far, he may also betray the values of our club. I am not talking about our style of play here. Pompey were pragmatic under Grant, but most of the time they played football the right way, passing their way forward rather than lumping and hoping. Even when under the cosh against Chelsea, there were flashes of stylish football and, against Tottenham in the semifinal, they were a joy to watch at times.
No, the footballing traditions will be maintained under Grant. What worries me is who will be playing that football. Let me set out a possible team to kick off the new season:
Green: Faubert, Da Costa, Upson, Ilunga; Dyer, Noble, Parker, Derr Hammer, Barerra; Cole
Subs: Kuracz, Daprela, Tomkins, Piquionne, Boa-Morte, McCarthy, Diamanti
That team looks pretty good to me. Sure, we might prefer a better right back and true, the centre of defence looks vulnerable, but that team would be good enough for a top ten finish in my opinion. Indeed, for home games against weaker opponents, you might start Diamanti in place of Noble to give us more attacking options and there is the scope to go 4-4-2 by bringing either Benni or Piquionne into the team. If Dyer actually playing a competitive game is truly a pipe dream, then we can bring in Boa and, of course, when fit, Collison would slot nicely back into the side in Dyer's role.
But what is my point? Why the headline?
Well I like that team for a number of reasons. It has shape, it has flexibility, it can become a true 4-5-1 or a true 4-3-3. It plays to the strengths of key players like Parker, Noble and Derr Hammer, with a solid central midfield and genuine width and pace on the flanks. It is also a good blend in terms of age. There are no young, raw players asked to do a job beyond their years and, Upson apart, there are no old men in the starting eleven. Amazingly, we would still have Stanislas, Gabbidon, Ben Haim (assuming we have signed him!) Spector, Hines, Collison, Sears, Spence and Nouble with first team experience, even allowing for the sale of Behrami and Kovac, my preferred departures to balance the books. Then there is Montano and Fry who have been playing in the friendlies as further back up.
But that team looks good to me for another key reason: it includes six Englishmen! Now here is where I feel Grant needs restraining. ALL the players we have been linked with are foreigners. Zola had already started this move - who did he sign with a British passport? To be fair to the Italian, he was willing to pick the kids - too willing at times - but there was a marked and obvious move away from the Turds and Egg strategy of having a British spine.
I am an England fan and I am proud that West Ham won the World Cup. This summer was embarrassing and showed that something has to be done to protect and develop the England national side. In the past, West Ham have not needed legislation to force us to play Englishmen, it has been a proud tradition of the club to do so. But Beckham is the only Englishman that we have been linked with since the Davids arrived, never mind since Grant was appointed, and Beckham is wanted as a PR general, not as a midfield general. Now, let me set out another possible team:
Green: Faubert, Ben Haim, Da Costa, Ilunga; Barerra, Behrami, Kovac, Derr Hammer, Boa: Remy.
Not only is that team older and weaker, it also has NO outfield players who are English. Do we really want to see a West Ham team stripped of Englishmen? Personally, I would hate that!
So, I would not mind if the transfer window slammed shut now. I would not mind if Sullivan and Gold ordered Grant off the Transfer Merry Go Around and said, "Sell Kovac and Behrami and that's it, that's your squad." It may not be the perfect squad but it is a fair squad and a squad that respects the traditions of our club.
Would I rather finish 8th with an all foreign team, or fifteenth with a blend of Englishmen and foreigners? I would take fifteenth! We play in the ENGLISH PREMIERSHIP and, by tradition, we have an English spine. Greenwood managed England and he would hate to see a West Ham team without a single outfield English player. Brooking has been trying to protect the grass roots of English football, trying to ensure the development of young English talent, so he would hate to see a foreign West Ham side. Bobby Moore captained England to the World Cup, he would surely hate to see an all foreign West Ham team. As a Jew, Avram Grant should understand the importance of history and tradition; he must not be allowed to undermine the traditions of West Ham United, the Academy of English Football!
40 comments:
So small minded HF what a shame.
The Premier league is one of the few (only?) British products that catches the worlds eye because of the multitudes of nationalities who compete. Why would you want to throw this away?
Agree with alot you say but we do bring young English players through but which English players would you buy ? All English players value gets inflated so teams like us have to buy from abroad as it's better value for money ! Whoever pulls on that fantastic claret & blue shirt either English or not we will always be WEST HAM UNITED and after the seasons we have had I would snap your had off for 8th and I'm sure sir bobby Ron and John are looking down and think the same all they would ask for is we play the west ham way with passion for the shirt and don't worry where the person was born who is blessed to wear it
I would have thought that the two Davids would have schooled Mr Grant on the traditions of the club at interview.
I can't see the day when we field a completely non-English line-up. Rememeber the Uefa ruling will come into play soon restricting the number of foreign imports!!
No need to panic or blindly think that your concerns haven't passed through the minds of the Powers that be........
1124, small minded, me? You betray the smallest mind of all, the mind of an accountant. Sod standards, sod what is right and wrong, sod the local workforce, sod the kids, sod patriotism, all that matters is the bottom line, all you care about is the balance sheet.
I don't want to throw away ALL the foreign players, I just don't want to throw away the England national team and West Ham's traditions in the quest for short term success. It is a question of BALANCE. The team I say I like has SIX ENGLISH PLAYERS so also has FIVE FORIEGN PLAYERS. If every team maintained that balance, there would be 120 English players starting in the Prem each weekend. That should be enough to service the needs of the National side. If every team goes down the Arsenal route, the England team will be buggered.
1155, it is less a question of who we buy and more a question of who we don't sell! Ron and John wanted more than passion for the shirt by the way. Passion wasn't enough; in fact passion wasn't the primary consideration. They wanted style and grace. They believed the game should be played the right way.
1201, we could sell Noble, Cole, Parker and Upson and still comply with the squad rules with regard to home grown players. The rule needs to apply to players on the pitch, not players on the squad, to be truly effective. Now, if every team had to have six home grown players on the pitch at any given time (players developed through the youth team of an English club), then we would see real change! Liverpool would be buggered for starters!
God that article was boring and pointless...... and way too long - you could have said all that in a couple of paragraphs - mind you you've said it all before anyway..... you really are a one trick pony - going over and over what you've already said - if you have nothing new to say then don't say it - as the say less really is more. Quality not quantity.
I don't really fear for our production of English talent. I think the board, manager and fans fear not fulfilling the potential of Tomkins, Hines and Stanislas, perhaps Freddy Sears also. If you think that many of these kids have been here since aged 11, it would be silly not to give them a chance. It's funny how the focus is solely on English players and not British players for a change. It's worrying how Manchester City, a club that has the potential to create a large chunk of a future English team will chose not to. Richards, Onouha, Hart, M. Johnson.
Stech
Turgott Spence Tomkins Daprela
Stanislas Noble Fry Vose?
Hall Fanimo
-Team of 2015 lol
Awful awful; article. Ten minutes I will never get back just to hear a deluded racist talk about patriotism. "I would raather finish 15th..." blah blah blah. You're the kind of man who cuts off fishes lips and keeps them in a rope pull bag and wave it out of bus windows shouting "Ive got fish lips, Ive got fish lips". I bet you holiday in Belgium.
It is high time West Ham stops being the factory of English players only to lose them to other clubs and think about it's own success and prosperity. I don't mind any English player as long as he costs the same and can do the job as well as any other international player we can have in that position. It is about time West Ham thinks about how to become a great club itself rather than how to create the players with which other clubs become or remain great. Our only concern is how to become great and successful. If it takes 23 foreign players to succeed, then so by it!
1400, that took you 10 minutes to read? What do you do, sound out the letters? What level book have you now reached? One day, you might manage a whole novel, though if it takes ten minutes to read an article of that length, then you had better set aside 12 months of Sundays to do so! Here's a tip. If I start reading something and don't think it is worth reading, I stop reading it! If you can manage a novel, may I humbly suggest"The French Lieutenant's Woman" by John Fowles. I have interrupted the reading 20 pages from the end in order to draw out the pleasure of not having finished it. Some big words in it but it is well worth a go. There's even a dirty bit you might enjoy!
Please explain what you considered racist in the article. You chuck that word around like confetti but do not seem to understand the meaning of the word. Is the rule that the President of the United States has to be born in America racist? Is it racist to say that to play for England you have to be English? Nationalistic perhaps, but not racist. There is a distinction.
1302, I don't think I've said any of that before and, even if I have, the nature of the net is that there is always a new potential audience. Nobody forced you to read it did they? Of, you may be the same person as 1400, but if not, I will make the same point to you. The article is only long if you are used to Janet and John books. How many words? Not many!
Sav, with respect, you are Greek (I think). The England team is important to me and I do not want West Ham's success to be at the expense of the national team.
I think too much emphasis is being put on the issue that English talent is not getting a chance and hence the national side is poor, because there are too may foreigners playing in the Prem. All of the members of the England world cup squad were first team starters except for maybe Crouch SWP, J.Cole, Carrick, who get their fair share of games anyhow.
I think it's a deeper problem why the national team is not doing well. It's a football culture thing. Surely if the young talent coming through were good enough, or more to the point, better than the foreign players, they would get in the side? The other issue is that our players are not ready to embrace other cultures and play abroad. That is a big factor in their lack of development in my opinion.
...and the People is saying that we've been offered Ronaldinho! Now that would get season ticket sales going!
Stani, the bigger the pool, the better the chance of quality. Look at the problems we have in finding a left back. There is a choice of just 4, and one of those won't play for England because his ex was a tart!
Now, consider you are a parent of a kid with the potential to succeed. Would you consider the odds of him doing so a reasonable gamble? Yes the rewards are huge, but the chances of success are now miniscule.
Why would West Ham risk relegation by playing kids? Why would Liverpool develop young talent when they can recruit foreigners to do a job?
We saw this with the England cricket team. Then the cap on the number of foreign players was introduced, and suddenly we found our feet as an international team again.
Look at Stanislas. A couple of bad games and the kid was dropped. How many bad games did Bobby Moore have in his early days? Well look at our goals against column and it must have been quite a few! Devonshire certainly went missing in some games, but that didn't lead to him being dropped instantly. We persisted with Joe Cole, even when we were battling against relegation. Can you imagine Mervyn Day being given "time" now? His first appearance was a 3-3 draw against Ipswich and Greenwood said after the game that he would be West Ham's keeper for the next 10 years. With Pierre Foreigner waiting in the wings, he would have been dropped and may never have been seen again.
How many future England players have become disillusioned and drifted out of the game due to lack of opportunities? Will Sears be the next? Or Stanislas? Or Tomkins even? Payne has gone, so has N'Gala. It is the throw away society carried into sport. If it is flawed, why work on it? Just ditch it and find a foreign replacement.
But surely if they were good enough they would be part of that pool anyway HF? In football as a whole, should we strive to be the best or should we not and just be inclusive and less than the best we can be just for reasons of nationality? Surely we should be striving for the former?
The counter argument: the better the players the English players (the ones that make it) play with, the better they will get. Hence, are the foreigners not improving our English players that make it and in effect separating the wheat from the chaff?
You're seeing this pool as a strictly English pool but if you look at it as a footballing pool, in which the English have a place, then this is the ultimate manifestation of quality. Hence, if an English player does float to the top of the footballing pool, then you know he has quality, whereas if he floats to the top of the English pool then he may just be mediocre.
Also, why can't our players go abroad and do what foreigners are doing here? Again, it comes down to not being good enough and not wanting to embrace other football cultures. Plying their trade abroad could be a very successful way out for those English players that think they are good enough but weren't given the chance. They are very few by the way.
I think the left back problem is more of a general problem in football and probably stems from the fact that fewer kids growing up want to be defenders. Combine that with the ratio of left footers to right footers in the population and it results in the lack of left backs problem football is seeing generally today.
Then explain the absence of right backs!
I disagree Stani. Look at Waddle and Beardsley - you're not telling me they weren't good enough? Or Devonshire. They drifted away but were reclaimed. Now, they would be lost to the game forever. Youth development and scouring the lower leagues / non league football is playing second fiddle to bringing in Pierre Foreigner on the cheap. Yes you keep the best of the foreigners to stretch the indiginous talent, but you give English players the chance to develop and grow, playing first team football in the top division without the FEAR of being thrown on the rubbish heap because an "off the shelf" foreigner is available at a cheap price. We need to create a system where young English players are encouraged to express themselves, not to "play safe" for fear of being displaced by a foreign alternative.
HF, Yes I am a Greek Cypriot but I am also a British national raised and educated in England. I want England to be successful almost as much as you do. But I put West Ham above all that. First and foremost West Ham should have ambition and take those decisions and actions that would make it a great Club. If it can be done with English players alone I would be the happiest man alive. But we both know this is not possible. In fact, it may well be argued that all we have managed to become with this type of logic and sentiment is a feeding club for other more ambitious clubs. It is about time we get priorities right!
At Herr Fanno - Yaaaawwwwwn - and you say 1400 throws the racist word around like confetti - how do you know who it is? do you still honestly think that "anonymous" is one person?
If this blog was of a higher calibre then visitors would take the time to log under a name - but seeing as your posts are boring, lame and goes over the same stuff again and again - you don't inspire people to give a fcuk....
It's funny as I also thought at the end of the "article" that it was a waste of my time and I'll never get that time back - I suspect that 1400 like me was hoping and praying that there was going to be some substance to your mutterings, something clever and witty at the end to make the slog worthwhile, but alas this is really one of your worse - total worthless drivel.
Personally I think you are a narrow minded little twerp..... what kind of fool with rather finish 15th? you still don't seem to have realised that this is the 21st Century and it's different, British, English, European, black, whit or whatever - it's becoming less apparent and even less important - you should realise that we are all citizens of the world... take that on board and you might surprise yourself and widen your very blinkered horizons - I've alwyas thought that the people who bang on about race and religion are people from the working classes, who are uneducated and after following your blog for some time - I have to say that you reinforce that view quite perfectly.
One thousand two hundred and twelve words in that article... with the average reader taking 4 to 6 minutes to read it - people who read a lot would take around 2-3 minutes - if the words are boring and uninspiring I suspect it would take around 8-10 minutes providing the reader wasn't bored to death before hand.
I have to agree with previous posters - that was boring and yes I
we've heard it here before.
Sav - the words of reason... how refreshing!
"As a Jew, Avram Grant should understand the importance of history and tradition; he must not be allowed to undermine the traditions of West Ham United, the Academy of English Football"
As a Jew? so what it is you are saying... that Jews have a better understanding of history and tradition? but a better understanding than who? the French? the Germans? Muslims? the native American Indians? the British? Nigerians?
What utter tosh!!!!!!!!!!!!! all people from all countries have a good understanding the importance of tradition and history.
"he must not be allowed to undermine the traditions of West Ham" what are you talking about? you are an idiot. I visit lots of football related; websites West Ham and others - but you come out with the weirdiest sh!t
1747, citizens of the world do not qualify to play for England, you have to be English by birth or through naturalisation. I would restrict it to by birth personally. It would bugger the England cricket team but I am old fashioned in believing that being English is a fundamental qualification to play for England.
1819, you do not understand Judaism clearly. The Diaspora meant that the Jewish faith drew more heavily on the maintenance of historical stories and religious traditions. With no territorial history, Jews clung to the history of their religion and faith. I quote:
"History is of the utmost importance in Judaism. Whereas the sacred texts of most ancient religions focus on myths and philosophical concepts, the Jewish Bible is centered around historical narrative; and most Jewish holidays are intended to connect modern Jews with their historical ancestors and traditions." http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/history.htm
Now, you may consider First Temple Judaism as "the weirdest shit" but I suspect Avram might disagree with you!
By the way, I have never once wasted time telling somebody that they are wasting my time. Why, if your time was wasted, would you waste more time typing a reply? You have too much time to waste clearly! Thank God I am burning some of that time for you! Of course, you could always get a life instead. You don't have to read what I write do you?
you're confused again I don't believe it's one person who complains against you, but a multitude
Who says I am confused? I reply to two different people in my answer. Strange the way you make exactly the same point as one of them, regardless. Maybe not the same person; maybe just as thick!
A lot of blog bashing. Think I will have some kip and hope 'the bashers'also take a rest (for a few years)
Ive gotta disagree with you on this one mate. Why should it be just down to west ham to buy english? Everyone, even the most powerful are buying foriegn. Why dont citeh come out and say we will only buy english abnd dominate with the cream of english football?
2 reasons even tho they have unlimited money they still would not pay extra for a player just because he is english. I mean wasent milner qouted at 30 million or something? just cos he is english 20 million is added to his sell value. Crazy
Then there is the other thing of why play english whenn the forign boys are so much better than ours. Lets be honest here our boys are technically far inferior to players from abroad. For a player of the same ability age etc as milner a foregn boy would cost a third of that.
Yes it would be nice to have more english players but then our football would be far too diluted compared to the rest of the league and we would be at far too a disadvantage
AppyAmmer
Hope you are of the same opinion when West Ham limp through a game away from home on a cold, drizzly mid week evening! Will Barerra fancy it then? Remember Jimenez?
Oh god you are so predictable - I reckon you fashion yourself on that other intellectual heavy weight Alan Hansen
You win nothing with West Ham kids. Look at England!
Football doesn't have a right back problem though HF? The game and the things around it have changed a lot since Waddle and Beardsley.
Ok, let's take this further; whose responsibility should it be to enforce this? In this case you have said it should be G&S's, but generally, should it be Fifa? The FA? The Premier League?
Disappointed Stani. Do you have to be forced to do the right thing? Doesn't your conscience guide you?
'You' as in 'one'? Does one have to be forced to......?
I dream of living in a world where our moral conscience guides us HF! Believe me. But the reality is very different I'm afraid, as I am far too well aware unfortunately.
What disappoints you?
welcome to the modern world HF! fuckin' hell - as a dane i couldn't give a flying F. whether there is or is not English players in the west ham team, I mean you just be happy that you can go to every game - every week... I'm proud of what our club has done according to english players, but I would prefer to have Ronaldinho in mine rather than Parker any day of the week... and if you can put your Englishness aside, you know you agree!
I love to read your blogs - keep 'em comming!
I've made a bet of a case of beer that we will finish 7th or above, so my optimism for the season is beyond the last 5 years!
C.O.Y.I!!!
-Powerpeter
welcome to the modern world HF! fuckin' hell - as a dane i couldn't give a flying F. whether there is or is not English players in the west ham team, I mean you just be happy that you can go to every game - every week... I'm proud of what our club has done according to english players, but I would prefer to have Ronaldinho in mine rather than Parker any day of the week... and if you can put your Englishness aside, you know you agree!
I love to read your blogs - keep 'em comming!
I've made a bet of a case of beer that we will finish 7th or above, so my optimism for the season is beyond the last 5 years!
C.O.Y.I!!!
-Powerpeter
Cheers Peter. If you ever come over for a game, let me know. We could have a beer or to before and after the game. By the way, I'd rather have Parker playing for his wages than a certain Brazilian collecting his pension!
A beer or two!
Thanks HF! would be awesome!:-)
have a nice week!
God that's a long! 1756 is soooo right!
My guess is that every one of the Anonymous' holding their 'HF is a racist' card in the air has at some point sat in the pub moaning about Wenger for his lack of British in his starting line. Hypocracy is a shit isn't it?!
1250, will you please stop checking me out in the shower!
Chunky, my guess is that half of them are card holding members of the BNP!
1303 Takes one to know one!!!
1336 Takes one to know one!!!
No it doesn't! You can spot the BNP member by the way he drags his knucles on the ground when he walks! Just pop along to Dagenham High Street any week day afternoon!
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